New style flying suits
Gentleman Aviator
Canberra old bean:
I select Pedantic Git Mode (PGM) ON. Flying suits/ grobags, call'em what you will are these days,(I note from your profile you are no longer serving) officially No 14 Home Dress, and so can be worn by ANY RANK suitably entitled. Denims/overalls AIN'T uniform.
The defence rests.
PGM selected OFF.
Mind you, overalls must have been useful for you, prophylactic against the grease from those shoulder-borne chips ........
I select Pedantic Git Mode (PGM) ON. Flying suits/ grobags, call'em what you will are these days,(I note from your profile you are no longer serving) officially No 14 Home Dress, and so can be worn by ANY RANK suitably entitled. Denims/overalls AIN'T uniform.
The defence rests.
PGM selected OFF.
Mind you, overalls must have been useful for you, prophylactic against the grease from those shoulder-borne chips ........
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flying suits
if flying suits arent uniform why are they worn with rank badges on them? dont see many people wearing squadron badges with no 2 dress do you? if flying suits are worn by the helicopter force how come all the pics from afghanistan show them wearing cs95 in the air, and with sleeves rolled up? and in my time in the former yugoslavia all the helicopter crews of all 3 services were wearing dpm.
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new style flying suits
The reason the guys in afghanistan wear c95's is that its an operational theatre. It is supposed to be an AIRCREW forum so why do the blunties insist in asking stupid questions that all OPERATIONAL AIRCREW know the answer to?
Image is everything ability is nothing.
Image is everything ability is nothing.
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whingeing hasbeens
U build em, MAD Boom I concur.
Canberra, why bother posting if all you intend to do is use this as a forum to slag off officers and aircrew? All other ranks/trades have examples of people who have poor sartorial standards around station, just as aircrew do. However not ALL aircrew fit into the improperly dressed, badge covered, moronic category that you seem to place us in.
Go and find the "bitter and twisted" forum, as I'm sure they'll take you with open arms.
Canberra, why bother posting if all you intend to do is use this as a forum to slag off officers and aircrew? All other ranks/trades have examples of people who have poor sartorial standards around station, just as aircrew do. However not ALL aircrew fit into the improperly dressed, badge covered, moronic category that you seem to place us in.
Go and find the "bitter and twisted" forum, as I'm sure they'll take you with open arms.
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Chaps, for once I must agree with the Bald one on this.
Flying suits in my role (long range tanking) are pretty darned uncomfortable. They are hot, when you need to stay cool, and their fire retardent capabilities are kaput once you wash and tumble-dry them.
We don't even get them in the correct colour, if you know what I mean.
They also look crap when passing through an international airport, and are an embarrassment to be seen in - not from a fashion point of view, but they look shabby.
I would like to see us (fat-pie-eaters, that is) in an operationally effective, comfortable, but presentable outfit. If they can't clear a C95 equivalent outfit, then we should take a leaf out the Yanks' book, or just buy their kit.
And why does it take >6 months to get some new boots??? Even when you're on ops?
Flying suits in my role (long range tanking) are pretty darned uncomfortable. They are hot, when you need to stay cool, and their fire retardent capabilities are kaput once you wash and tumble-dry them.
We don't even get them in the correct colour, if you know what I mean.
They also look crap when passing through an international airport, and are an embarrassment to be seen in - not from a fashion point of view, but they look shabby.
I would like to see us (fat-pie-eaters, that is) in an operationally effective, comfortable, but presentable outfit. If they can't clear a C95 equivalent outfit, then we should take a leaf out the Yanks' book, or just buy their kit.
And why does it take >6 months to get some new boots??? Even when you're on ops?
Quite right. I agree that our flying suits look pretty shabby - but at least in 2 Gp they're required to conform to a standard 'badge pattern'. No silly patches as favoured by some.......
Boots (Lightweight) Size 8 Medium have now been on order for yours truly for over 7 months! The reason for the shortage quoted by the stackers is that "The Army didn't order any resupplies".
Presumably Woopert of the Umpty-Umpth Queen's Own Chinless Pwancers is well supplied with horse shoes and saddles - but as for items of flying clothing? Oh no, Sir.........
Boots (Lightweight) Size 8 Medium have now been on order for yours truly for over 7 months! The reason for the shortage quoted by the stackers is that "The Army didn't order any resupplies".
Presumably Woopert of the Umpty-Umpth Queen's Own Chinless Pwancers is well supplied with horse shoes and saddles - but as for items of flying clothing? Oh no, Sir.........
Champagne anyone...?
On the last "Op" I was on, crews were flying in desert DPM kit. This is infinitely superior to standard flying suits when in a hot environment.
Given the magnificent aircon available to Albert whilst on the ground (none) crews in normal flying kit are invariably soaked with sweat before they've begun the Starting checks. Flight deck temperature easily gets well above 40degC the effects of which are compounded by the hot flying suits. Crew members working outside (GE, ALM, movers etc) are often even worse off. This usually results in flight deck members stripped down to their t-shirt and the guys outside working in shorts. Doesn't look smart but I'd rather get the job done comfortably than die of heat stroke looking "smart"
Desert DPM kit is so much more comfortable in hot weather than flying suits. I only spent a month operating in it but then found going back to flying suits a real pain. I just wish we could wear it to and from Akronelli too.
Given the magnificent aircon available to Albert whilst on the ground (none) crews in normal flying kit are invariably soaked with sweat before they've begun the Starting checks. Flight deck temperature easily gets well above 40degC the effects of which are compounded by the hot flying suits. Crew members working outside (GE, ALM, movers etc) are often even worse off. This usually results in flight deck members stripped down to their t-shirt and the guys outside working in shorts. Doesn't look smart but I'd rather get the job done comfortably than die of heat stroke looking "smart"
Desert DPM kit is so much more comfortable in hot weather than flying suits. I only spent a month operating in it but then found going back to flying suits a real pain. I just wish we could wear it to and from Akronelli too.
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I used "Coverall Aircrew Mk15T" in a hot country recently and found it quite acceptable, and when it rained (and did it rain!) they dry out very quickly. Fortunately I still have the old brown lightweight boots, but desert wellies would have been prefered.
The Mk 15 both Tropical and European give a bit more room where it matters most, and are a long way off from the new gopping colour scheme.
During Purple Star (where SH were ordered to wear S95) I got a bollicking for being on the flight line in a Mk14 Flying Suit, when such garb had to remain in the confines of an aeroplane, can you believe that one. Especially as I was collecting water for the crew whilst the cab was still running.
I believe that Life Insurance companies got p155y with the widows of a fatal Lynx crash at Soest in the 80s because clothing issued for Health and Safety was not being worn (DPM was).
It is about time 100% cotton Tee shirts were issued as flying kit instead of virtually everybody flying incorrectly dressed in summer.
Purple should go nice with the new designer suits
T_M
The Mk 15 both Tropical and European give a bit more room where it matters most, and are a long way off from the new gopping colour scheme.
During Purple Star (where SH were ordered to wear S95) I got a bollicking for being on the flight line in a Mk14 Flying Suit, when such garb had to remain in the confines of an aeroplane, can you believe that one. Especially as I was collecting water for the crew whilst the cab was still running.
I believe that Life Insurance companies got p155y with the widows of a fatal Lynx crash at Soest in the 80s because clothing issued for Health and Safety was not being worn (DPM was).
It is about time 100% cotton Tee shirts were issued as flying kit instead of virtually everybody flying incorrectly dressed in summer.
Purple should go nice with the new designer suits
T_M
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new flying suits
some people may have misunderstood me. i personally have no problem with raf aircrew wearing flying suits around stations, what i have a problem with is the fact that on most units the swo goes mental with groundcrew if they wear their coveralls around station, shades of double standards? i also got very ******* off at seeing an sdo salute the flag in flying suit, somehow i cant see the army allowing the sdo to do his duty in a flying suit or coveralls. and i do have a problem with aircrew plastering their flying suits in badges!
Gentleman Aviator
Canberra
As the PM says - "I refer you to the answer I gave a few minutes ago"
In the RAF (not Army), flying suits are uniform (No 14 HD), hence RAF SDOs saluting the flag in flying suits and Army not. (And anyway, what's wrong with saluting the flag in the UNIFORM you fly and fight in)
Coveralls groundcrew ARE NOT uniform, hence mental SWOs.
A change in dress regulations is way above MY pay grade.
Proliferation of childish badges are a matter for local management, as are tatty uniforms OF ANY SORT. And as BEags has indicated, this is not an insolublr problem.
It really ain't rocket science ......
btw, are you named for the bomber or the rather soulless Oz capital??
As the PM says - "I refer you to the answer I gave a few minutes ago"
In the RAF (not Army), flying suits are uniform (No 14 HD), hence RAF SDOs saluting the flag in flying suits and Army not. (And anyway, what's wrong with saluting the flag in the UNIFORM you fly and fight in)
Coveralls groundcrew ARE NOT uniform, hence mental SWOs.
A change in dress regulations is way above MY pay grade.
Proliferation of childish badges are a matter for local management, as are tatty uniforms OF ANY SORT. And as BEags has indicated, this is not an insolublr problem.
It really ain't rocket science ......
btw, are you named for the bomber or the rather soulless Oz capital??
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OK, OK - time to calm down everyone.
Point number one: Flying Suits are PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. That is why those loverly squippers spend sooo much time servicing and repairing them. sub-point. Wear them in & around the working area as PPE should be. Not, like some people, just to wear 'cos it is easier than fastening all those complicated buttons on working blues.
Point number two: BEagle. Duffgen in evidence. Due to the transfer to the new Mk 1 Flying Boot, Suit etc, all contracts for supply have, as is required, been completely cocked up and gone to rats. Rolling and goats seem to fit here. The Contracts peeps have, as usual, ensured 'seamless' and 'transition' will never feature in Crew Room banter. From all who ever manned the trenches in Clothing Stores, a genuine 'Sorry' - you should have the right kit to do the job and we'd love to provide it.
Anyway - have you noticed how the new suit makes bums look bigger? Or just bigger bums....................hmmmmmmmmmm.
Point number one: Flying Suits are PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. That is why those loverly squippers spend sooo much time servicing and repairing them. sub-point. Wear them in & around the working area as PPE should be. Not, like some people, just to wear 'cos it is easier than fastening all those complicated buttons on working blues.
Point number two: BEagle. Duffgen in evidence. Due to the transfer to the new Mk 1 Flying Boot, Suit etc, all contracts for supply have, as is required, been completely cocked up and gone to rats. Rolling and goats seem to fit here. The Contracts peeps have, as usual, ensured 'seamless' and 'transition' will never feature in Crew Room banter. From all who ever manned the trenches in Clothing Stores, a genuine 'Sorry' - you should have the right kit to do the job and we'd love to provide it.
Anyway - have you noticed how the new suit makes bums look bigger? Or just bigger bums....................hmmmmmmmmmm.
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Not much has changed with them, just of lighter material, and darker green in colour.
(But hey, plaster them in badges, and you won't notice the difference.)
But quite correct, they are protective equipment, and saluting the ensign on SDO is perhaps not correct, but hey, officers, what more can you expect?
Quite agree that they are awful to wear in temperatures seen in the middle east, speaking from experience I would rather wear CS95 like the rotary boys. Loading up a Rod in 40deg is not a lot of fun, and flying in soaking wet kit is uncomfortable.
But hey, when required in a bar, airshows, or maybe around a certain Channel Island in September, doesn't matter what colour they are, they do the job!!!! Jealousy is awful, isn't it?
MADs
(But hey, plaster them in badges, and you won't notice the difference.)
But quite correct, they are protective equipment, and saluting the ensign on SDO is perhaps not correct, but hey, officers, what more can you expect?
Quite agree that they are awful to wear in temperatures seen in the middle east, speaking from experience I would rather wear CS95 like the rotary boys. Loading up a Rod in 40deg is not a lot of fun, and flying in soaking wet kit is uncomfortable.
But hey, when required in a bar, airshows, or maybe around a certain Channel Island in September, doesn't matter what colour they are, they do the job!!!! Jealousy is awful, isn't it?
MADs
Yes, flying suits and coverall are Protective Equipment.
The big difference, in this context, between aircrew in flying suits and groundcrew in coveralls is what is worn underneath. If the groundcrew want to walk around the station, all they have to do is take off the coverall, as most (and I appreciate this could be a bit of a generalisation) wear the dark blue shirt/ blue trousers underneath. For the aircrew to do the same, they would have to strip naked and then put on their blues, every time they leave the building. I often fly 3 times a day, and having to change clothes 5 or 6 times a day (in the fantastic changing facilities provided of course) just to go to SHQ or to the Mess for lunch would waste vast amounts of my already valuable time, as well as being a right royal pain in the arse.
Have to agree though about saluting the ensign as SDO, that should be done in blue.
The big difference, in this context, between aircrew in flying suits and groundcrew in coveralls is what is worn underneath. If the groundcrew want to walk around the station, all they have to do is take off the coverall, as most (and I appreciate this could be a bit of a generalisation) wear the dark blue shirt/ blue trousers underneath. For the aircrew to do the same, they would have to strip naked and then put on their blues, every time they leave the building. I often fly 3 times a day, and having to change clothes 5 or 6 times a day (in the fantastic changing facilities provided of course) just to go to SHQ or to the Mess for lunch would waste vast amounts of my already valuable time, as well as being a right royal pain in the arse.
Have to agree though about saluting the ensign as SDO, that should be done in blue.
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Hey Tiger mate , I hate to correct you but the new tropical suits are the ****y green colour. I just had one given to me and it didn't even fit. Maybe thats something to do with my ever expanding girth.
Anyway who cares what colour they are they still get covered in **** and snot at the end of the day .
What do you all mean ... "Cover them in badges"... badges! for christs sake, you'll all be wanting to wear your names on them and rank slides.. come on guys get operational will you.....
PS
I dont give a **** wether Ground crew wear badges or not as long as they look after my cab who cares!
Anyway who cares what colour they are they still get covered in **** and snot at the end of the day .
What do you all mean ... "Cover them in badges"... badges! for christs sake, you'll all be wanting to wear your names on them and rank slides.. come on guys get operational will you.....
PS
I dont give a **** wether Ground crew wear badges or not as long as they look after my cab who cares!
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Baffled as to why flying suits should be an issue to anyone other than aircrew, I personally would love to saunter to lunch in the Officers' Mess in my No 1s (they do look very smart esp. with wings and medals).
The truth of the matter is I don't get time for lunch break, and what time I do get to cram some 'high energy' (another thread methinks) rations down my neck does not allow me time to get changed into something others find appropriate.
The issue of badges seems strange also, in my experience FJ Sqns have a standard set of badges which everyone wears, usually in the form of a aircraft type (worn after P1 qual) a Sqn badge (post CR) and a name badge, with wings. On ops some guys wear a Union Flag patch, but then again war-suits are sanitized anyway.
Danny Boy
The truth of the matter is I don't get time for lunch break, and what time I do get to cram some 'high energy' (another thread methinks) rations down my neck does not allow me time to get changed into something others find appropriate.
The issue of badges seems strange also, in my experience FJ Sqns have a standard set of badges which everyone wears, usually in the form of a aircraft type (worn after P1 qual) a Sqn badge (post CR) and a name badge, with wings. On ops some guys wear a Union Flag patch, but then again war-suits are sanitized anyway.
Danny Boy
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Fair enough for the chopper boys to wear CS95 as they spend much of their time either in the field or in support of the army. However, CS95 just isn`t as practical in the FJ world, and worse of all you have to iron it!
Seriously though, when you wear CS95 you`re going to have to wear the CABs with it, and that means picking up loads of FOD and $hite on the deep treads. The whole point of the flying coveralls and survival equipment is that it's all designed for use in the cockpit, not for the army to wear while rolling about in the mud like CS95.
Seriously though, when you wear CS95 you`re going to have to wear the CABs with it, and that means picking up loads of FOD and $hite on the deep treads. The whole point of the flying coveralls and survival equipment is that it's all designed for use in the cockpit, not for the army to wear while rolling about in the mud like CS95.
