Military organisational politics - and the progression to senior ranks
Thread Starter
Military organisational politics - and the progression to senior ranks
As an observer of organisational behaviour, I've often wondered if the military is as viciously competitive when it comes to progression to senior rank as the the Corporate world is.
A former Australian Army officer described it to me this way "...when you reach the rank of Major, it's a significant career turning point. Because from then on it becomes much more competitive. A lot of people make the decision to leave."
The air-force equivalent in Commonwealth air-forces would roughly be Squadron Leader - right?
So from that point on, my assumption is that as well as being technically exemplary - one must be an astute political animal as well - without being seen too much as a Machiavellian back-stabber that no-one trusts.
I guess what I'm asking is to what degree organisational and unit politics play a role in promotion - the perception many civilians would have is that it's a very mechanistic process based on time served, entitlement, ability etc. but that surely it's not that simple.
A former Australian Army officer described it to me this way "...when you reach the rank of Major, it's a significant career turning point. Because from then on it becomes much more competitive. A lot of people make the decision to leave."
The air-force equivalent in Commonwealth air-forces would roughly be Squadron Leader - right?
So from that point on, my assumption is that as well as being technically exemplary - one must be an astute political animal as well - without being seen too much as a Machiavellian back-stabber that no-one trusts.
I guess what I'm asking is to what degree organisational and unit politics play a role in promotion - the perception many civilians would have is that it's a very mechanistic process based on time served, entitlement, ability etc. but that surely it's not that simple.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many reach the ceiling of their competence at Captain rank, as per one such individual currently playing soldiers in Australia. Given his well known abuse of illegal drugs, smoking, drinking, and ungentlemanly / un-officer like behaviour in Cirencester, London, Las Vegas etc, has realised. or been told, that he should seek an alternative career where his talents will be more suited. Of course, he will be free to continue wearing a fancy uniform occasionally whilst enjoying free lunches in numerous messes for the rest of his life. Astonishingly, he will also get further promotions without having to work for it, probably becoming a General on some birthday or other, just like daddy!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hants
Age: 80
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not Secret,
Have you inside information? It is a massive leap of imagination to state that Prince Harry has reached his ceiling in the promotion stakes.
I think you need to delete your post. I suggest you take up running a Fish and Chip shop - you will never be short of chips with that kind of attitude.
Each to their own views I suppose.
ACW
Have you inside information? It is a massive leap of imagination to state that Prince Harry has reached his ceiling in the promotion stakes.
I think you need to delete your post. I suggest you take up running a Fish and Chip shop - you will never be short of chips with that kind of attitude.
Each to their own views I suppose.
ACW
Gentleman Aviator
Machiavellian back-stabber
Secret1
Done much Apache flying in Afghan yourself have you.......???
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a very enjoyable and fascinating chat with a retired VVSO officer last year who let me in on the nuts and bolts and machinations of promotion/appointments/postings at the highest level. I won't go into the detail, but one of the aspects which struck a chord was that the higher you ascended, the more close mates, confidantes and drinking buddies from one's peer group slipped off your radar. I think I suggested it would make an incredible book. And it would.
Thread Starter
Very intriguing.
You are all starting to back my assumption.
Wherever there is competition over scarce resources - there will be politics.
Be it money, women, power, or what is on your epaulettes...
Intriguing - more dits please - anonymous of course.
And BTW I ask purely out of curiosity - nothing more than that.
You are all starting to back my assumption.
Wherever there is competition over scarce resources - there will be politics.
Be it money, women, power, or what is on your epaulettes...
Intriguing - more dits please - anonymous of course.
And BTW I ask purely out of curiosity - nothing more than that.
I can think of those from one Entry at the Towers where a number reached very senior rank. They covered the whole spectrum from "backstabber extraordinaire" to "perfect officer and gentleman".
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,069
Received 2,938 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
In a way I agree with Secret1, take that Wing Commander at Odi, I bet they will not ignore his drugs taking, unlike Harry's.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The SO in a group will detach from his 'mates' when a MSO arrives. Same sadly with wives too where 'exec' wives will push of JO wives.
I once asked a former Gp Capt; RAFG Station Commander; why he had chosen to leave and not pursue what seemed like a very promising career. His reply was quite enlightening:
"Look at the kind of people I would have had to associate with"
YS
"Look at the kind of people I would have had to associate with"
YS
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Under the EGOS circuit
Age: 74
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
And the name changes!
All the Daves who become Davids as they get promoted, Petes who become Peter, Andys become Andrews......
When I reached my "ceiling of competence", a number of people asked me if I'd still be a Dick ................... 
All the Daves who become Davids as they get promoted, Petes who become Peter, Andys become Andrews......
When I reached my "ceiling of competence"
, a number of people asked me if I'd still be a Dick ...................
A little known secret, the mandatory operations required before promotion.
-Major to Lieutenant Colonel: Remove heart
-Lieutenant Colonel to Colonel: Remove spine
-Colonel to Brigadier General: Remove brain
-Major to Lieutenant Colonel: Remove heart
-Lieutenant Colonel to Colonel: Remove spine
-Colonel to Brigadier General: Remove brain
I commend a book called "High Command" by Christopher L Elliott ISBN 9781849044608.
The book examines many aspects of high command and all that goes with it over the last decade or so in the British Forces.
When I joined the RAF they had what I thought was an 'honourable' way of dealing with an officer. It was called the Supplementary List. Basically, officers in this list were guaranteed careers to age 38 but no further and they were (I was) the cannon fodder and bodies over which those on the General List clambered on their way to the top. It was possible to move from supplementary to general and many general list chaps did not progress beyond the rank of squadron leader.
A retired Air Vice Marshal was employed at Cranwell and he reviewed all confidential reports for General List officers and was able to pick out the 'high flyers' and ensure their careers were managed and massaged accordingly. The reporting system was closed and apart from telling an officer when he had scored spectacularly low marks (starred items of 3 or less) one was not told what the reports said.
There were many problems as with all systems requiring personal judgements but it seemed to work. Of course there were some serious 'brown nosers' and i worked with a guy who suffered a bad case of SIP - self image projection, which made him unpopular with his peers but did his advancement no harm.
Old Duffer
The book examines many aspects of high command and all that goes with it over the last decade or so in the British Forces.
When I joined the RAF they had what I thought was an 'honourable' way of dealing with an officer. It was called the Supplementary List. Basically, officers in this list were guaranteed careers to age 38 but no further and they were (I was) the cannon fodder and bodies over which those on the General List clambered on their way to the top. It was possible to move from supplementary to general and many general list chaps did not progress beyond the rank of squadron leader.
A retired Air Vice Marshal was employed at Cranwell and he reviewed all confidential reports for General List officers and was able to pick out the 'high flyers' and ensure their careers were managed and massaged accordingly. The reporting system was closed and apart from telling an officer when he had scored spectacularly low marks (starred items of 3 or less) one was not told what the reports said.
There were many problems as with all systems requiring personal judgements but it seemed to work. Of course there were some serious 'brown nosers' and i worked with a guy who suffered a bad case of SIP - self image projection, which made him unpopular with his peers but did his advancement no harm.
Old Duffer
YS - not later selling shirts in Robert Sayle in Cambridge and ultimately a main board director of John Lewis?
It was in fact someone from about a generation later.
YS
Air Chief Marshal RAF "Sandy" Wilson, on being knighted, was very very briefly "Sir Sandy" and I seem to remember this is what we were told [at JHQ] his wishes were.
Didn't last long however. Speak as one finds, he was a great boss for me, Sandy or Andrew. I settled for "Sir".
Very soon thereafter, a German PA announcer at a Joint thrash referred to him as "Sir Wilson". Difficult area, these honorifics .............
Didn't last long however. Speak as one finds, he was a great boss for me, Sandy or Andrew. I settled for "Sir".
Very soon thereafter, a German PA announcer at a Joint thrash referred to him as "Sir Wilson". Difficult area, these honorifics .............
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
A bit unfair in places, but generally spot on. Gp Capt 'Dick', you kept your sense of reality and don't forget Sir 'Baz'.
A certain Brigadier Rollo raised his head above the parapet to support lowly me when I was potentially in the dwang against the system, he really didn't have to do it.
It does make me laugh when Andy and Kate become Andrew and Catherine........
A certain Brigadier Rollo raised his head above the parapet to support lowly me when I was potentially in the dwang against the system, he really didn't have to do it.
It does make me laugh when Andy and Kate become Andrew and Catherine........