Heads up: BBC2 22:00 11/3/15
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wub, thnaks for the heads up. It has been on before, but it's a good programme.
Ignore the usual crown of whingers and moaners. They're the same ones about who bang on about their beautifully bound log books and how great thy look in a 1940s greatcoat.
As someone else said, great PR for the RAF, not something you hear very often!
Flying - if it was that difficult, the engineers would be doing it instead of pilots!
S-D
Ignore the usual crown of whingers and moaners. They're the same ones about who bang on about their beautifully bound log books and how great thy look in a 1940s greatcoat.
As someone else said, great PR for the RAF, not something you hear very often!
Flying - if it was that difficult, the engineers would be doing it instead of pilots!
S-D
I've just watched the programme on BBCiPlayer. How on earth did they manage such fantastic weather at Valley?
A very good programme to cover so much in a mere 30 minutes. The RAF came over very well and it was fascinating to see the new Hawk T2 training infrastructure.
Rhod did well, I thought.
The only jarring point was that he was handed a pilot's flying badge, aka 'Wings'. Those have to be earned the hard way, just as an all-arms badge, green beret, dolphins badge or parachutist badge has to be earned. It was emphatically wrong that he was allowed to wear the flying badge; a pity as it detracted from an otherwise excellent programme.
A very good programme to cover so much in a mere 30 minutes. The RAF came over very well and it was fascinating to see the new Hawk T2 training infrastructure.
Rhod did well, I thought.
The only jarring point was that he was handed a pilot's flying badge, aka 'Wings'. Those have to be earned the hard way, just as an all-arms badge, green beret, dolphins badge or parachutist badge has to be earned. It was emphatically wrong that he was allowed to wear the flying badge; a pity as it detracted from an otherwise excellent programme.
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Ref: #6
No, you are not !
You could make an exception for Churchill, perhaps, for at least he had done some aviating, and recalled once: "Stalling between two fools", (sounds like a possible CaPCom suggestion !)
But not this character (whatever his fame in other directions).
D.
You could make an exception for Churchill, perhaps, for at least he had done some aviating, and recalled once: "Stalling between two fools", (sounds like a possible CaPCom suggestion !)
But not this character (whatever his fame in other directions).
D.
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Very interesting ! How Valley has changed from '50/'51 when I was there ! But I suppose the weather is much the same.
But the shots of the Hawk 2 simulator brought home to me that I'm from a bygone age. I only hope that all those touch screens work better than the one I've got (goes AWOL regularly, close/wait/reopen laptop usually fixes it), but these Star Wars cockpits are not for this child !
D.
But the shots of the Hawk 2 simulator brought home to me that I'm from a bygone age. I only hope that all those touch screens work better than the one I've got (goes AWOL regularly, close/wait/reopen laptop usually fixes it), but these Star Wars cockpits are not for this child !
D.
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People are unhappy about wings being handed out without being earned, and Comic Relief is (unfortunately) on the tv I seem to remember that years ago a Hercules being fitted with a red nose and flying Lenny Henry somewhere. At one end or the other he was saluted as he got on or off the aircraft. That riled me as I am sure he doesn't hold the Queens Commission. My memory works in funny ways.
Baa humbug etc.
Baa humbug etc.
I must be getting soft in my old age.
In my opinion anything that gets the armed forces back into the public eye and paints it in a positive light as we approach a general election in the post (!) Afghanistan era is a good thing. I watched this programme a few months ago and thought it was a job well done. The guys who took him round the sim and jet did a great job and were well chosen.
The RAF comes out of it smelling of roses and everyone thinks FJ pilots are awesome as a result (only confirming what we already know!). Why get all bent out of shape about the wings thing?
I was on the fringes of a previous programe about Valley from 2002/3 (I think it was called Combat Pilot or something and I was in the background for a few seconds hurriedly getting out of shot) and TV producers/directors have their own ideas about what makes a good programme. The presenting of wings would have been their idea almost certainly and in the context of the programme with Rhod Gilbert did no real harm.
Maybe it would be a good idea to lighten up and just take it for what it was. Light-hearted TV with a side dish of prime time, main channel, positive PR for the RAF.
BV
The RAF comes out of it smelling of roses and everyone thinks FJ pilots are awesome as a result (only confirming what we already know!). Why get all bent out of shape about the wings thing?
I was on the fringes of a previous programe about Valley from 2002/3 (I think it was called Combat Pilot or something and I was in the background for a few seconds hurriedly getting out of shot) and TV producers/directors have their own ideas about what makes a good programme. The presenting of wings would have been their idea almost certainly and in the context of the programme with Rhod Gilbert did no real harm.
Maybe it would be a good idea to lighten up and just take it for what it was. Light-hearted TV with a side dish of prime time, main channel, positive PR for the RAF.
BV
BV wrote:
If it was the producers idea, then the IV Sqn folk should have refused to agree. Giving Rhod the RAF pilot's badge to wear was unacceptable.
The presenting of wings would have been their idea almost certainly and in the context of the programme with Rhod Gilbert did no real harm.
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If it was the producers idea, then the IV Sqn folk should have refused to agree. Giving Rhod the RAF pilot's badge to wear was unacceptable.
S-D
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Comment for rigpig concerning Lenny Henry being saluted although he doesn't hold a Commission; I can recall being told at OCTU that officers saluted ladies as a courtesy and I have it in the back of my mind that one or two other categories of civilian were also saluted as a courtesy (maybe bishops or heads of a foreign state?). Are ladies still offered this courtesy or am I just showing my age? Just a thought, but what about senior officers who have retired but still hold a permanent commission? I am probably very old-fashioned but, although I am past the recall age, I hold my commission to be exactly that - permanent.
salad-dodger, as non-aircrew you probably won't have a real understanding of the resentment felt by those who've worked hard for their 'wings', when they see them being handed over like that to someone unentitled.
Hardly 'pathetic precious sensibilities'.
Yes, it was a good programme as I've already said. The 'wings' aspect was the only jarring element.
Hardly 'pathetic precious sensibilities'.
Yes, it was a good programme as I've already said. The 'wings' aspect was the only jarring element.
Last edited by BEagle; 14th Mar 2015 at 08:33.
The RAF PR machine
I am on exchange with the RN at the moment and they never fail to comment on how slick our spin machine is!
So you see chaps...in the context of post-Afghan, SDSR... spin has a quality all of its own.
Ref the wings debate, I can see both sides. I am proud of my wings and I hold our traditions/habits in high regard...but is this so different to Jim'll Fixit arranging for some 12 yr old to train with the Marines and wear a green lid?
So you see chaps...in the context of post-Afghan, SDSR... spin has a quality all of its own.
Ref the wings debate, I can see both sides. I am proud of my wings and I hold our traditions/habits in high regard...but is this so different to Jim'll Fixit arranging for some 12 yr old to train with the Marines and wear a green lid?
Heads up: BBC2 22:00 11/3/15
BEagle.
It obvious to me that we shall have to agree to disagree.
Anyone could ring up Terrane and order a wings badge with their name on it. Hell, you can probably buy them at surplus stores along with green berets and medals.
I'm a pilot and I worked hard for my wings but it doesn't bother me one bit that Rhod was given a pair. Why? Because there is no inference whatsoever that he earned them properly. If it was, let's say, a six week programme where there was a period of training to teach him to fly and he were to claim at the end of it that he were a qualified pilot then I might feel differently. What he had was an air experience flight and he quite clearly put across the idea that he was woefully under qualified to do the job himself.
There's a difference between claiming to have earned them (which he has not) and wearing, what is basically, just an ornate piece of cloth.
Anyway as I said above we are unlikely to agree but that's my two penn'orth anyway.
BV
It obvious to me that we shall have to agree to disagree.
Anyone could ring up Terrane and order a wings badge with their name on it. Hell, you can probably buy them at surplus stores along with green berets and medals.
I'm a pilot and I worked hard for my wings but it doesn't bother me one bit that Rhod was given a pair. Why? Because there is no inference whatsoever that he earned them properly. If it was, let's say, a six week programme where there was a period of training to teach him to fly and he were to claim at the end of it that he were a qualified pilot then I might feel differently. What he had was an air experience flight and he quite clearly put across the idea that he was woefully under qualified to do the job himself.
There's a difference between claiming to have earned them (which he has not) and wearing, what is basically, just an ornate piece of cloth.
Anyway as I said above we are unlikely to agree but that's my two penn'orth anyway.
BV
BV, did you have 'Op' badges on your FJ squadrons? When I was on 56, you could wear the 'informal' badge once you'd joined, but you didn't wear the proper squadron badge until you'd gained Op status.
So how would you have felt if the Op badge was just handed to any Tom, Dick, or Rhod to wear on a flying suit?
Anyone can indeed become a Walt and wear something to which they're not entitled. If you think that's OK, then we will indeed have to disagree.
So how would you have felt if the Op badge was just handed to any Tom, Dick, or Rhod to wear on a flying suit?
Anyone can indeed become a Walt and wear something to which they're not entitled. If you think that's OK, then we will indeed have to disagree.
Heads up: BBC2 22:00 11/3/15
On the Jag we had the giant triangular arm shield and the CR badge. The former could be worn by anyone who had flown the Jag solo. The latter was awarded once you were CR.
If either were presented to a celebrity in he manner being discussed it wouldn't bother me one bit.
I will concede though that if some random 'erbert turned up in a bar in a flying suit wearing them I'd be slightly miffed. Indeed if I were drunk I'd probably make a huge song and dance about it!
I see a distinct difference in the two situations though.
BV
If either were presented to a celebrity in he manner being discussed it wouldn't bother me one bit.
I will concede though that if some random 'erbert turned up in a bar in a flying suit wearing them I'd be slightly miffed. Indeed if I were drunk I'd probably make a huge song and dance about it!
I see a distinct difference in the two situations though.
BV
Thread Starter
No one here has complained about Larry Olivier, Richard Todd, Michael Caine and Christopher Plummer wearing wings in films. They were playing parts of course but to some extent, so was Rhod Gilbert.
What Does It Mean?
To me, the award of a flying badge means success at a very difficult endeavour. It is earned against an objective set of success criteria. Does ANYONE (Rhod Gilbert included) think that ANYONE will think that he has earned the wings?
The wings in this instance represent a cross between a keepsake and and a little 'dramatic licence'.
Gilbert was a vet for a couple of days- is anyone convinced? Is he?
CG
PS C'mon Scotland!
The wings in this instance represent a cross between a keepsake and and a little 'dramatic licence'.
Gilbert was a vet for a couple of days- is anyone convinced? Is he?
CG
PS C'mon Scotland!
Just watched it on iPlayer. He was very self-deprecating throughout, I thought, and sincere at the end.
Line of the programme: "Last time I saw this many knobs was at the Tory Party Conference." Classic!
CG
Line of the programme: "Last time I saw this many knobs was at the Tory Party Conference." Classic!
CG