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David Cameron, the pension and that 2% defence budget.

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David Cameron, the pension and that 2% defence budget.

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Old 13th Mar 2015, 00:21
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Surely it will just bring up a return on Greek mythology - Danae and Zeus? Or is there something else I might have missed?
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 08:16
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Leon, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, you may recall that ships with HMS in their title didn't actually cope with missile hits any better. And they weren't loaded to the roof with jet fuel and cluster bombs! But £2,900 million ought to buy a reasonable fire defence system.

To translate that to a serious point, does it matter? IS/Taliban/pirates offer no serious threat to her and if we decide to invade Russia, all the damage control systems ever invented won't allow her to survive a nuclear missile.
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 12:00
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Selective data re Atlantic Conveyor. I was on Atlantic Causeway which was successful! Choose your data to suit your argument - bad as all politicians.
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 12:04
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And a lot of my mates were on the Conveyor.
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 12:50
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According to this...

UK GDP 1980-2010

UK GDP has risen from £200M to £1400M

I'm no economist but 3% of £200M is substantially less than 2% £1400M isn't it? (£6M & £28M)?

But according to this...

Public Spending Chart for United Kingdom 1980-2016 - Central Government Local Authorities


...defence spending has risen from £10M to £40M.

I have no axe to grind here but all of the information should be available for discussion should it not?

Maybe I'm just carp at maths.
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 13:33
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TURIN

You are carp! It is £Billion not £Million

OAP
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 13:37
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Onceapilot beat me to it but I was about to mention that TURIN's spelling was worse than his maths!
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 15:43
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I think I read that Defence is around 8% of cash out - which is NOT the same as GDP
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 16:27
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"...its Billion not Million"! Turin might perhaps be forgiven, considering the casual way the government toss these enormous figures about -most folk simply can't relate to them to anything meaningful. Perhaps kit should come with price tags with all the zeros. Or better still a comparison."..this missile costs a nurses salary for twenty years"
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 16:57
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From the Nato Web site on the 2% rule post Wales Summit

Hit the indirect funding Tab.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/to...ectedLocale=en
  • Allies currently meeting the two per cent guideline on defence spending will aim to continue to do so;
  • Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will halt any decline; aim to increase defence expenditure as GDP grows; and will move toward the two per cent guideline within a decade.
Aim and will are two very differant words.
So the commitment was not to stay at 2% but aim to. If we do dip below we give ourselves a decade to get back!
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Old 13th Mar 2015, 17:08
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Perhaps kit should come with price tags with all the zeros.
IIRC they tried this once and encouraged us to report if we thought it could be bought cheaper. Some wag challenged the cost of a section radio saying it's cheaper out of Maplins. A procurer wag bought a pair of kids walkie talkies for £40 with his MoD credit card and had them delivered. leaked like a sieve, only had one channel and no crypto but met the "80%" test. Careful what you ask for.
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 07:43
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Poor taste.

Poor taste to show the burnt out picture of the AC and use it in your argument. it'll be like last week to some people who read these pages so watch and think about what you post and mock.
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 08:08
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Ex-Minister: UK Needs $9B Annual Boost
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 13:47
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I heard the intelligence agencies integrated budget described as 'equivalent to an MOD rounding error'. In other words, even if the SIA vote was included in the MOD allocation, I doubt that it would make any difference in the overall percentage of MOD expenditure
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 17:48
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Notable that on today's Andrew Marr Show AM asked Osborne why there was no longer term commitment to the 2% minimum. He squirmed and evaded the question. If it had been Paxo, he would have continued until there was blood or tears on the studio floor. Marr, being too much of a gent, merely moved on to another topic.
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 18:14
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I'd very much like more money spent on defence but the link referring to a £6billion "shortfall" is erroneous. Just because the economy booms, or because somene insists (insanely) that drugs and prostitution has to be included in the figures, does it mean we have to go out and buy a load of kit that we weren't planning to buy just to get to the magic 2%?

Greece are beating the 2% figure (lovely boys!) ...unfortunately that amounts to a level of air power roughly on a par with Bruntingthorpe.
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Old 17th Mar 2015, 09:53
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I think you are assuming there isn't already a shed load of kit that we do need but keeps getting deferred because the money keeps getting reallocated. There will be stores currently snail crawling through the manufacture/repair lines that are in a low availability state in the supply system. They will be trickle delivered because the money isn't there to pay the Contractor faster. The more time a store spends with the Contractor, the higher the unit price tends to be to cover the time dependent overheads.

We could actually spend to save but that rarely gets past the glib slogan stage.
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Old 17th Mar 2015, 10:54
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I heard the intelligence agencies integrated budget described as 'equivalent to an MOD rounding error'. In other words, even if the SIA vote was included in the MOD allocation, I doubt that it would make any difference in the overall percentage of MOD expenditure
It might not make much difference but it does display a disregard for defence spending and a less than honest approach to the budget. What sort of message does it give our allies when it looks like we are doing the equivalent of looking down the back of the sofa for loose change in order to give the impression that are maintaining our position at the top table. I don't hear any messages from the Tories about trying to incorporate other departments budgets into the foreign aid budget for example, so why is defence being treated in such a way?
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Old 18th Mar 2015, 09:10
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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No other budget has to meet an arbitrary (that doesn't necessarily mean unimportant) external target, skydiver.

If the 2% really is crucial, there's an easy way to meet it. Vote labour. With the economy back to where it was with Balls running it, we could cut a couple of major programmes and still be spending over 2%.
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Old 18th Mar 2015, 09:25
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"because somene insists (insanely) that drugs and prostitution has to be included in the figures,"


not so insane - in the nearest couple of towns to HH Towers a substantial number of people seem to be able to afford Range Rovers, Bentley's, large houses,and lots of jewellry without means of visible support. We don't even see them at the Golf Club - not even on Hoodie Day!!!!

that cash (and I'm sure it is largely cash) is keeping a lot of legit business going - so every reason to include it in the figures
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