Another Turkish AF F-4 down...
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Another Turkish AF F-4 down...
Sadly both crew perished in the crash...
Turkish fighter jet crashes during training flight, two dead - military | Reuters
-RP
Turkish fighter jet crashes during training flight, two dead - military | Reuters
-RP
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Training Cited in Turkish Aircraft Losses
ANKARA — In December 2013, Turkish officials warned that because military pilots were leaving service at such an alarming rate, much greater attention must be paid to the training regime. Slightly over a year later, Turkey mourns the loss of six pilots in a span of six days.
Two Turkish RF-4E reconnaissance jets crashed into a hill on Feb. 27 near Malatya, eastern Turkey, killing all four pilots aboard. On March 5, an F-4E fighter crashed over an electronic warfare test field near Konya in central Anatolia, killing two pilots. The Turkish military ruled out technical reasons for both mishaps. A statement from the military headquarters March 10 blamed the accidents on pilot error.
Although the military denied technical failures, it said on March 11 that it would decommission the remaining eight RF-4E aircraft in the Air Force's inventory as of March 12. It said the F-4Es, which Turkey jointly upgraded with Israeli Aerospace Industries in the 1990s, would remain in service until 2020. The F-4s first entered service in the Turkish Air Force in 1974. Since then 10 RF-4Es and 50 F-4Es have crashed.
Analysts and experts point to possible training weaknesses at the Air Force. "The morale has been low among officers over the past few years due mainly to a slew of legal cases targeting their colleagues," said one insider. "Mass departures from the service also has weakened the training concept."
Since 2010, several high-ranking officers have been charged with attempting to stage a coup d'etat against the government and with espionage. Several officers were retired, purged or sent to jail. Today, prosecutors admit some of the evidence against the defendants had been "fabricated." But since 2010, more than 800 Air Force pilots have quit the service, seeking careers in civilian aviation. Of those, nearly 600 were combat pilots.
"We had so many valuable [colleagues] who left the Air Force after being implicated. No doubt, they represented a quality [in the service]. But our friends today do not represent a lower quality. I cannot say that there is no morale decline [in the service]," Gen. Abidin Unal, commander of the Combat Air Force in Eskisehir, western Turkey, told reporters March 11. "It is an open secret that things are not going well in the Air Force for some time. The departure of scores of experienced pilots has weakened training," said one Air Force officer. "Perhaps we need to revise our training concept and augment personnel."
An Air Force pilot admitted that the service is no longer able to recruit or sustain a sufficient number of experienced pilots. But he said the accidents in February and March were not a direct result of that. "Technical failure is out of the question. Take the twin accidents in Malatya. You cannot have the same technical failure on two aircraft at the same moment," he said. "All three accidents are apparently a result of piloting errors. And I think it is just a bad coincidence that they happened within six days."
But a military aerospace expert said that a training regime cannot remain unaffected after the departure of so many pilots within a few years. "We are talking about several hundreds of deserters, not just a few," he said. "I am not sure if the Air Force has fully replaced them. I would think it has not.".......
ANKARA — In December 2013, Turkish officials warned that because military pilots were leaving service at such an alarming rate, much greater attention must be paid to the training regime. Slightly over a year later, Turkey mourns the loss of six pilots in a span of six days.
Two Turkish RF-4E reconnaissance jets crashed into a hill on Feb. 27 near Malatya, eastern Turkey, killing all four pilots aboard. On March 5, an F-4E fighter crashed over an electronic warfare test field near Konya in central Anatolia, killing two pilots. The Turkish military ruled out technical reasons for both mishaps. A statement from the military headquarters March 10 blamed the accidents on pilot error.
Although the military denied technical failures, it said on March 11 that it would decommission the remaining eight RF-4E aircraft in the Air Force's inventory as of March 12. It said the F-4Es, which Turkey jointly upgraded with Israeli Aerospace Industries in the 1990s, would remain in service until 2020. The F-4s first entered service in the Turkish Air Force in 1974. Since then 10 RF-4Es and 50 F-4Es have crashed.
Analysts and experts point to possible training weaknesses at the Air Force. "The morale has been low among officers over the past few years due mainly to a slew of legal cases targeting their colleagues," said one insider. "Mass departures from the service also has weakened the training concept."
Since 2010, several high-ranking officers have been charged with attempting to stage a coup d'etat against the government and with espionage. Several officers were retired, purged or sent to jail. Today, prosecutors admit some of the evidence against the defendants had been "fabricated." But since 2010, more than 800 Air Force pilots have quit the service, seeking careers in civilian aviation. Of those, nearly 600 were combat pilots.
"We had so many valuable [colleagues] who left the Air Force after being implicated. No doubt, they represented a quality [in the service]. But our friends today do not represent a lower quality. I cannot say that there is no morale decline [in the service]," Gen. Abidin Unal, commander of the Combat Air Force in Eskisehir, western Turkey, told reporters March 11. "It is an open secret that things are not going well in the Air Force for some time. The departure of scores of experienced pilots has weakened training," said one Air Force officer. "Perhaps we need to revise our training concept and augment personnel."
An Air Force pilot admitted that the service is no longer able to recruit or sustain a sufficient number of experienced pilots. But he said the accidents in February and March were not a direct result of that. "Technical failure is out of the question. Take the twin accidents in Malatya. You cannot have the same technical failure on two aircraft at the same moment," he said. "All three accidents are apparently a result of piloting errors. And I think it is just a bad coincidence that they happened within six days."
But a military aerospace expert said that a training regime cannot remain unaffected after the departure of so many pilots within a few years. "We are talking about several hundreds of deserters, not just a few," he said. "I am not sure if the Air Force has fully replaced them. I would think it has not.".......
Thank you ORAC for that post.
Some thoughts from my side.
To name the pilots deserters, who sure left the military by a legal way sheds light on the thinking model. At the end of the day there will be reason for the pilots to leave the military, and it will not be the pay in the civil aviation.
The real blame has to go to the people in charge of the military, as the saying goes the fish starts to smell at the head.
It would be interesting to know how the real situation looks like. How many hours were available for such a small RF-4E fleet, how many sorties could be flown a year and how many sorties and hours did the individual pilot fly? If the pilots left, they must have felt pretty bad in their situation, and maybe senior technichians had left before. Which in turn would have had an influence in sortie rate and proficiency of individual pilots. Nothing is as bad for a military pilot as not being on the flying schedule.
Everything I heard until now about the cause of the accidents and the retirement of the jets sounds like a cover up from brass and politicians to deflect attention from the real problems.
One reason for this situation might be the financial situation caused by the planned buy of 100 F-35 aircraft, which must be a great challenge for the economy of the country to create the necessary funds.
Some thoughts from my side.
But a military aerospace expert said that a training regime cannot remain unaffected after the departure of so many pilots within a few years. "We are talking about several hundreds of deserters, not just a few," he said. "I am not sure if the Air Force has fully replaced them. I would think it has not.".......
The real blame has to go to the people in charge of the military, as the saying goes the fish starts to smell at the head.
It would be interesting to know how the real situation looks like. How many hours were available for such a small RF-4E fleet, how many sorties could be flown a year and how many sorties and hours did the individual pilot fly? If the pilots left, they must have felt pretty bad in their situation, and maybe senior technichians had left before. Which in turn would have had an influence in sortie rate and proficiency of individual pilots. Nothing is as bad for a military pilot as not being on the flying schedule.
Everything I heard until now about the cause of the accidents and the retirement of the jets sounds like a cover up from brass and politicians to deflect attention from the real problems.
One reason for this situation might be the financial situation caused by the planned buy of 100 F-35 aircraft, which must be a great challenge for the economy of the country to create the necessary funds.
Last edited by RetiredF4; 16th Mar 2015 at 19:03.
