UK conducted 6% of air strikes against ISIS
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Let's just pause for a moment and explore the alternative universe we'd be in if the money fairy actually did pop by and triple our defence budget. What would all those extra squadrons and thousands of soldiers be doing right now?Would we now be embroiled in a bitter Middle-Eastern civil war-to-the-knife? We lament the public for being ignorant and I'll-informed. But it's abundantly clear that the public is not indifferent, rather is definitely opposed to such an adventure.
How many of the public do you think could even find Syria on an unmarked map? Not many I'd wager. And how many of the public actually understand the links between the UK and terrorist groups in the Middle East and Asia? Again, probably not many. So how can you be credibly opposed to something you have no real understanding of?
I suspect you're correct though, they are opposed rather than indifferent, because all they see is the financial costs of UK foreign policy at a time when their standards of living are under threat.
I suspect you're correct though, they are opposed rather than indifferent, because all they see is the financial costs of UK foreign policy at a time when their standards of living are under threat.
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It's good to see Jordan using mk84 2000 pounder (much better effect than mk82 and no one running away afterwards) with no rediculously extravagant and expensive tax payer funded bomb guidance kit to more effectively eradicate the errant cavemen from Iraq and Syria. As long as it bakes a Big Bang, it sorts the target.
When was the last time the west had the balls to use this fit?
BBC News - Islamic State crisis: UAE sends F-16 squadron to Jordan
Keep it up guys, 30 jet raids till the job is done.
When was the last time the west had the balls to use this fit?
BBC News - Islamic State crisis: UAE sends F-16 squadron to Jordan
Keep it up guys, 30 jet raids till the job is done.
Last edited by VinRouge; 7th Feb 2015 at 20:56.
Threat = Intent + Capability
There is no point spending money on capability if there is no intent to use it, and the latest generation of politicians do not have any intention of deploying effective forces, which includes the ROE to use said forces.
With the ROE and strategies adopted, the last two wars were always going to be lost.
One look at the 1920's/1930's will show you a worse situation now than then in terms of force effectiveness, and it took a direct war on the UK to change things then. I would imagine the current lot would quite happily concede most of the UK before things bothered the politicians. UKIP reckon they already have.
There is no point spending money on capability if there is no intent to use it, and the latest generation of politicians do not have any intention of deploying effective forces, which includes the ROE to use said forces.
With the ROE and strategies adopted, the last two wars were always going to be lost.
One look at the 1920's/1930's will show you a worse situation now than then in terms of force effectiveness, and it took a direct war on the UK to change things then. I would imagine the current lot would quite happily concede most of the UK before things bothered the politicians. UKIP reckon they already have.
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I am afraid that surgical strikes are not the answer! IS have Raqqa as a defacto capital - glancing blows are not going to make them change their minds
or stop the bloodshed! Looking at the destruction that has took months to achieve in Kobani -the answer is B.1 /B52 overwelming destruction at night.
or stop the bloodshed! Looking at the destruction that has took months to achieve in Kobani -the answer is B.1 /B52 overwelming destruction at night.
RileyDove
as much as I am all for the complete destruction of ISIL in Ar Raqah, there are many civilians there too, all of whom have nowhere else to go.
We are carrying out this campaign to defeat and destroy ISIL in Ar Raqah, not kill every living human being in the areas under ISIL's control.
This air campaign has managed to halt the spread of ISIL. A continued campaign of surgical air strikes backed by SF on the ground and Iraqi security forces will start to have a detrimental effect on ISIL, their leadership and hopefully its recruitment. Killing every man, woman and child by carpet bombing towns and cities will have the opposite effect.
as much as I am all for the complete destruction of ISIL in Ar Raqah, there are many civilians there too, all of whom have nowhere else to go.
We are carrying out this campaign to defeat and destroy ISIL in Ar Raqah, not kill every living human being in the areas under ISIL's control.
This air campaign has managed to halt the spread of ISIL. A continued campaign of surgical air strikes backed by SF on the ground and Iraqi security forces will start to have a detrimental effect on ISIL, their leadership and hopefully its recruitment. Killing every man, woman and child by carpet bombing towns and cities will have the opposite effect.
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Agree with Toadstool. Cause enough civilian losses and we may give Daesh something to capitalise on.
Tough measures might be a part of the solution, but I think it's important not to let their atrocities and propaganda drag us into a headless blood frenzy. Stay frosty and think ahead. Just my humble and not-so-informed opinion.
Tough measures might be a part of the solution, but I think it's important not to let their atrocities and propaganda drag us into a headless blood frenzy. Stay frosty and think ahead. Just my humble and not-so-informed opinion.
Last edited by LS-4; 8th Feb 2015 at 19:23.
There are unconfirmed reports on Syrian social media today that coalition forces have been dropping leaflets on Raqa asking residents to immediately evacuate the town.
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If we try and conduct an air campaign with very limited ground forces its always going to be a case where it takes a long time to degrade the enemy.
Ultimately we either decide to go in with ground forces and clear every building and bunker at massive risk or we make the city impossible to live in!
IS are relying on infrastructure to keep their campaign going -whether thats the road system - electricity -hospitals or fuel dumps.
IS understand our air campaign -they know where to hide -they know how to move about and survive . Unfortunately for the occupants of Raqqa -at some stage in the future it will very much resemble Kobani - its pretty much up to the political will if they wish to achieve that in a short or long period of time.
Much as the thought of a stick of bombs falling down on Raqqa from a B-52 horrifies - the alternative at present seems to be to allow IS to torture -crucify and push people to their deaths from buildings.
We might feel that our degree of sophistication with targeted weapons can
achieve victory - however what degree of horror can IS inflict whilst
we take pot shots at them!
Ultimately we either decide to go in with ground forces and clear every building and bunker at massive risk or we make the city impossible to live in!
IS are relying on infrastructure to keep their campaign going -whether thats the road system - electricity -hospitals or fuel dumps.
IS understand our air campaign -they know where to hide -they know how to move about and survive . Unfortunately for the occupants of Raqqa -at some stage in the future it will very much resemble Kobani - its pretty much up to the political will if they wish to achieve that in a short or long period of time.
Much as the thought of a stick of bombs falling down on Raqqa from a B-52 horrifies - the alternative at present seems to be to allow IS to torture -crucify and push people to their deaths from buildings.
We might feel that our degree of sophistication with targeted weapons can
achieve victory - however what degree of horror can IS inflict whilst
we take pot shots at them!
I'm surprised this thread has gone so quiet. Is this article intended to be provocative and stir things up a bit?
French warplanes are flying three times as many sorties against IS as their RAF counterparts.
Research conducted by Sky News found that since the arrival of France's Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier in the Gulf it has dramatically increased the number of missions being flown. With 36 carrier and land-based Rafale and Super Etendard jets involved in the fight against Islamic State, the French are flying being [sic] 12 and 15 sorties a day.
The RAF's eight Tornados are flying just two sorties a day in pairs out of their base at RAF Akrotiri. The UK's Voyager refuelling aircraft however are assisting the French effort when required.
The figures appear to contradict the Prime Minister David Cameron's claim that the UK is the main partner to the US in the air campaign, although the RAF has currently carried out four times as many strikes as the French airforce.
Originally Posted by Forces TV on 12 Mar 2015
French warplanes are flying three times as many sorties against IS as their RAF counterparts.
Research conducted by Sky News found that since the arrival of France's Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier in the Gulf it has dramatically increased the number of missions being flown. With 36 carrier and land-based Rafale and Super Etendard jets involved in the fight against Islamic State, the French are flying being [sic] 12 and 15 sorties a day.
The RAF's eight Tornados are flying just two sorties a day in pairs out of their base at RAF Akrotiri. The UK's Voyager refuelling aircraft however are assisting the French effort when required.
The figures appear to contradict the Prime Minister David Cameron's claim that the UK is the main partner to the US in the air campaign, although the RAF has currently carried out four times as many strikes as the French airforce.
although the RAF has currently carried out four times as many strikes as the French airforce.
When it comes to actual strikes performed, sometimes the birds show up and the RoE can't be met so one takes the bombs home.
The willie waving is unfortunate. Everyone should show up with what your politicians let you bring, and do your best to contribute to the mission. FFS, the points scoring really, really doesn't matter. So long as some warheads get to some ISIS foreheads progress will be made.
This situation is a whole lot better than about ten years ago in some coalition ops I was working, where the French were so handcuffed by their own government's supplemental RoE that their missions were virtually unarmed recce with armed strike aircraft. Glad to see they've had their handcuffs removed.
Glad to see the RAF in the mix. It's a good thing.
The cynic in me would say it's approaching SDSR time, and this deployment is part of the "save/maintain the Sentinel" campaign. Not dissimilar to the one (and only) deployment of the E-3D to the Afghan campaign just before the 2010 SDSR, pure co-incidence of course!
As for "the RAF has currently carried out four times as many strikes as the French airforce", that statistic is hardly likely to come under threat, when you consider that strike sorties from the CdG carrier will have been flown by the French Navy!!
As for "the RAF has currently carried out four times as many strikes as the French airforce", that statistic is hardly likely to come under threat, when you consider that strike sorties from the CdG carrier will have been flown by the French Navy!!
It's not just Tornadoes...
I know nobody here likes to talk about them but there are other strike aircraft lobbing lumps of metal onto IS heads. There just aren't any pilots in them.
This will contribute to the total number of strikes remember.
BV
This will contribute to the total number of strikes remember.
BV
