SDSR 15
Join Date: Aug 2014
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The grass is certainly not greener just a different shade. All my departing cadre are now working in better paid jobs after 1 year. They range from Defence related, Telecoms. Transport, Consulting, The City and Charity. That's jumping at the SO2/1 level. Few reasons for a pay cut unless it's the job and a quality of life issue and you apply yourself.
However, why do we need all pilots to be commissioned?? The RAF has way too many Officers, especially at the Starred ranks and so is ripe for a cull.
In the longer term why not have SNCO pilots who, in the fullness of time, make up the majority of aircrew?
I see no issue with SNCO Typhoon pilots either.
Just a thought. Seemed to work in the late 30s, early 40s................
In the longer term why not have SNCO pilots who, in the fullness of time, make up the majority of aircrew?
I see no issue with SNCO Typhoon pilots either.
Just a thought. Seemed to work in the late 30s, early 40s................
And remind me, how is pilot manning at the moment in the only British Service which employs NCO pilots?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Flt Lt no RRP(F) +45K v Flt Lt PAS +65K
Only a very few will get anything like 45K on the outside.
If one can put up with being away from home a lot, working nights, and a general air of 'grubbiness' freight drivers can top 100K.
A lot depends on location. Civvy jobs near in rural far-flung locations (like where we used to have airbases...) will not deliver the same pay as RAF time-served jobs. Might be different for those staying near shiny city based HQs etc. Take the rough with the smooth - less pay, less eventual pension but you stay somewhere you want to live.
As others have said, I never joined as aircrew for the flying pay - I took a small cut to join but it was the job/lifestyle I wanted. The pay was a nice bonus once it started increasing (especially on PAS
)
Agree, less pay may mean some will leave but that probably suits the MoD paymasters - get the newbies in to fill the seats for less cost. The value of the lost experience matters not a jot to the bean-counters - just look at the recent redundancy fields.
As others have said, I never joined as aircrew for the flying pay - I took a small cut to join but it was the job/lifestyle I wanted. The pay was a nice bonus once it started increasing (especially on PAS
)Agree, less pay may mean some will leave but that probably suits the MoD paymasters - get the newbies in to fill the seats for less cost. The value of the lost experience matters not a jot to the bean-counters - just look at the recent redundancy fields.
Torque
Reduced initial (basic) trg costs.
SNCO pay with Flying Allowance paid only for hours flown.
No need for inventing so many jobs, career paths for post cockpit employment.
Significant 'cull' of Commissioned jobs.
I disagree that people will not join as I believe the main 'pull' is the chance of Mil flying rather than just the money.
Let's face it, with the size of the RAF, and where it's going, we should all be able to name the Gp Capts.
Overly simplistic? probably (definitely) but there are big cuts coming and I think a lot of the accepted conventions will ultimately be put to the wall.
Willard
100K for driving a train?????? Is'nt that the sort of thing that went on in Greece? No wonder we are up to our arses in debt!!
SNCO pay with Flying Allowance paid only for hours flown.
No need for inventing so many jobs, career paths for post cockpit employment.
Significant 'cull' of Commissioned jobs.
I disagree that people will not join as I believe the main 'pull' is the chance of Mil flying rather than just the money.
Let's face it, with the size of the RAF, and where it's going, we should all be able to name the Gp Capts.
Overly simplistic? probably (definitely) but there are big cuts coming and I think a lot of the accepted conventions will ultimately be put to the wall.
Willard
100K for driving a train?????? Is'nt that the sort of thing that went on in Greece? No wonder we are up to our arses in debt!!
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That kind of money is unusual, but not unheard of, and it means spending >50% of the year away from home. Probably made up of 50K basic and 50K overtime. The pay is also why there are around 400 applicants for every position advertised (freight & pass). In terms of freight it's paid for by the price one pays for goods in shops, on the forecourt of car dealers, etc.
Eurostar drivers - pretty much 'top of the heap' in terms of transporting walking freight - are on ~64K before overtime. Virgin and CrossCountry are on ~56K basic. Much of the difference between companies depends on Sunday working and other such arrangements.
Eurostar drivers - pretty much 'top of the heap' in terms of transporting walking freight - are on ~64K before overtime. Virgin and CrossCountry are on ~56K basic. Much of the difference between companies depends on Sunday working and other such arrangements.
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 30th Apr 2015 at 00:17.
Reduced initial (basic) trg costs.
An AAC SNCO pilot has to be a Cpl to start the pilot's course so how long does it take to recruit and train a soldier and then teach him a trade for long enough to get promoted to Cpl? Then you add the pilot training.
It just takes a few months at Cranditz to turn a civvy into a RAF officer then the same flying training costs as the Cpl pilot.
No significant cull of commissioned jobs on an AH sqn.
As for the cuts - they will be harsh but the green army will probably bear the brunt of them.
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Only a very few will get anything like 45K on the outside. I have several firends working in industry who are ex RAF and they are sounding notes of caution to anyone thinking of leaving.
They are re-hiring some of those that were made redundant to try stop the manning shortfall. A pay reduction RRP(F) or otherwise will not help that shortfall.
Either way I'm off to drive trains
Ex-Army friend of mine now drives trains. He suggested you may wish to consider your feelings about someone stepping in front of your train to end it all. It happens, and it isn't easy to deal with.
My brother gave up driving tow trucks, which was very well paid, after discovering that the crashed ones may still contain victims, or parts thereof.
My brother gave up driving tow trucks, which was very well paid, after discovering that the crashed ones may still contain victims, or parts thereof.
The grass is certainly not greener just a different shade. All my departing cadre are now working in better paid jobs after 1 year. They range from Defence related, Telecoms. Transport, Consulting, The City and Charity. That's jumping at the SO2/1 level. Few reasons for a pay cut unless it's the job and a quality of life issue and you apply yourself.
the green army will probably bear the brunt of them
Originally Posted by Junglydaz
Stitch, not to mention the RN as well. It seems the Senior and Junior Services have always considered that flying helicopters requires a University education AND the knowledge of which knife and fork to use!
Yes, I know it was tongue in cheek.....
If you're looking for a bean counter type method of saving money, I offer the following.
Many years ago the UK armed forces formally declared they were becoming a Monday to Friday only outfit. How I hear you ask? When the leave (absence
) rules changed so that you only needed to claim for Mondays to Fridays, weekends didn't count.
Since you don't need leave for weekends, you can't be working weekends any more - therefore cuts every bodies pay by two sevenths to reflect that fact.
Simples!!
Many years ago the UK armed forces formally declared they were becoming a Monday to Friday only outfit. How I hear you ask? When the leave (absence
) rules changed so that you only needed to claim for Mondays to Fridays, weekends didn't count.Since you don't need leave for weekends, you can't be working weekends any more - therefore cuts every bodies pay by two sevenths to reflect that fact.
Simples!!
The economy may not be universally rosy but there is a lot of money to be made out there. My son, 3 years out of college and qualified in a manual trade is now on £50k and seems to be nowhere near his ceiling. His Dad, who left the mob a few years ago wouldn't even get out of bed for that! Aviation is not the only game in town!
The economy may not be universally rosy but there is a lot of money to be made out there. ... Aviation is not the only game in town!
I'm watching how things go for him with interest. What I have learned so far from his experience is that we seem to be institutionally incapable of selling ourselves properly.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It costs [relatively] peanuts to maintain and operate the Tornado for starters. Spare components are reclaimed at Leeming, the aircraft belong to US, so we can adapt them to whatever the most urgent need is, try doing that to Typhoon or [HaHaHaHa] the next to useless F-35
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It costs [relatively] peanuts to maintain and operate the Tornado for starters. Spare components are reclaimed at Leeming, the aircraft belong to US, so we can adapt them to whatever the most urgent need is, try doing that to Typhoon or [HaHaHaHa] the next to useless F-35
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 1st May 2015 at 12:09.
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Reds
Can we eventually get rid of the Reds......which will save the AOC and his entourage costing the tax payer for a holiday in Greece....