F4C versus MIG21
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"Flew mig 21s in USAF quiet program..." One of (probably) his former steeds now for sale on tradeaplane. Regularly displayed until 4 yrs ago And it can be yours for $69,000!! Syndicate anyone? Whichever was best, doesn't this bring home who won the Cold War...How many Russians can afford their own F4 as a plaything?
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Originally Posted by ShotOne
Whichever was best, doesn't this bring home who won the Cold War...How many Russians can afford their own F4 as a plaything?
If memory serves me correctly, it took an act of congress to get permission for the Collings Foundation to own and operate theirs, and the USAF apparently fought it all the way!
-RP
* Money probably will be a significant factor, but not the most significant factor!
The Phantom II currently being restored to flying condition as referenced by Rhino power.
MCDONNELL F4H-1 PHANTOM II BUNO | Wings & Rotors Air Museum
MCDONNELL F4H-1 PHANTOM II BUNO | Wings & Rotors Air Museum
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the last few posts bring a question to mind,
given a healthy airshow scene in say forty years time, what would the most modern "vintage" airframe flying?
I'm guessing almost nothing flying today would fall into private hands.
FISH
P.S, happy new year everyone.
given a healthy airshow scene in say forty years time, what would the most modern "vintage" airframe flying?
I'm guessing almost nothing flying today would fall into private hands.
FISH
P.S, happy new year everyone.
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Originally Posted by TEEJ
The Phantom II currently being restored to flying condition as referenced by Rhino power.
MCDONNELL F4H-1 PHANTOM II BUNO | Wings & Rotors Air Museum
MCDONNELL F4H-1 PHANTOM II BUNO | Wings & Rotors Air Museum
-RP
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"Almost nothing flying today would fall into private hands.."
Would you have predicted forty years ago an Avro Vulcan nuclear bomber operated by a band of enthusiasts? There are scores of high performance jets in private hands; dozens of MiGs including at least one MiG29 on the display circuit, numerous Hunters, A4s and a Harrier plus of course the F4 mentioned above. Until recently you could have a joyride in a Lightning or Buccaneer. By contrast a typhoon or F18, for instance, is no harder to maintain or fly than the aforementioned. Is it really so unlikely?
Would you have predicted forty years ago an Avro Vulcan nuclear bomber operated by a band of enthusiasts? There are scores of high performance jets in private hands; dozens of MiGs including at least one MiG29 on the display circuit, numerous Hunters, A4s and a Harrier plus of course the F4 mentioned above. Until recently you could have a joyride in a Lightning or Buccaneer. By contrast a typhoon or F18, for instance, is no harder to maintain or fly than the aforementioned. Is it really so unlikely?
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In many ways an F-18 is much easier to maintain than a Phantom and was designed to be so. There are a few areas that might catch a civilian owner out such as the computer systems which will be unsupportable once the Hornet leaves military service since no civilian aircraft use them and its not just a metal aircraft either so spare parts would be horrendously expensive unless the USN was nice to you and gave you a huge stack of them since they would have no further use for them.
As for the USAF's attitude what the @&$)? Wouldnt you want a Phantom in private hands that can be displayed at base air shows with somebody other than the USAF paying the upkeep and fuel? Free publicity. I hope the USN takes a better attitude to their former F-4A once she is flying again.
As for the USAF's attitude what the @&$)? Wouldnt you want a Phantom in private hands that can be displayed at base air shows with somebody other than the USAF paying the upkeep and fuel? Free publicity. I hope the USN takes a better attitude to their former F-4A once she is flying again.
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In the ancient past I spent about 1000 non-combat hours displacing valuable fuel in the back of F-4C and F-4E/G airplanes.
I don't think any sane F-4 pilot would try to get into a low speed turning contest with a Mig-21, he would try to use the double ugly's power advantage to gain the vertical while encouraging his Mig-21 adversary to bleed off his energy by turning hard with his draggy delta wing.
My main thought is this: If you mission is to defend your air base from attacks by F-105s while under GCI control then the Mig-21 is well suited to that mission.
If you want to project airpower and operate with minimal outside assistance then the F-4, especially the F-4E and later models would be far better choices.
History shows in a direct encounter the F-4 will usually destroy the Mig-21 in combat.
I don't think any sane F-4 pilot would try to get into a low speed turning contest with a Mig-21, he would try to use the double ugly's power advantage to gain the vertical while encouraging his Mig-21 adversary to bleed off his energy by turning hard with his draggy delta wing.
My main thought is this: If you mission is to defend your air base from attacks by F-105s while under GCI control then the Mig-21 is well suited to that mission.
If you want to project airpower and operate with minimal outside assistance then the F-4, especially the F-4E and later models would be far better choices.
History shows in a direct encounter the F-4 will usually destroy the Mig-21 in combat.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jim, when the Vulcan sucked an F4E into a turning fight it was game over unless the F4 bugged out and reattacked with Sparrow.
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I just know I'm going to regret asking, but how exactly was it "game over"? Would the Vulcan run the F4 down? It had no means to dispatch the F4.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
No, run it out of fuel if the F4 tried to hang in and had to use burner. Rolling out, opening range and returning for a high speed pass was the solution.
Same with a Lightning, once you were on the wall of death the loser was the one who ran out of fuel first.
Same with a Lightning, once you were on the wall of death the loser was the one who ran out of fuel first.
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I think because of the high drag the Mig-21 experiences in a tight turn he'd better get a shot off quickly, especially against a slat-wing F-4.
Because the slat-wing F-4's have pretty much the same turn radius as a Mig-21, and since the F-4 has a power advantage the Phantom is going to be able to maintain the turn longer.
And of course the Mig-21 is in a fuel emergency state shortly after wheels in the well he'd better stay close to his base.
Having said that, our hypothetical F-4 pilot probably refused to get into a level turning contest in the first place.
Because the slat-wing F-4's have pretty much the same turn radius as a Mig-21, and since the F-4 has a power advantage the Phantom is going to be able to maintain the turn longer.
And of course the Mig-21 is in a fuel emergency state shortly after wheels in the well he'd better stay close to his base.
Having said that, our hypothetical F-4 pilot probably refused to get into a level turning contest in the first place.
