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Greater equality or papering over the cracks?

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Greater equality or papering over the cracks?

Old 19th Dec 2014, 11:59
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Greater equality or papering over the cracks?

BBC News - Women could join British infantry by 2016


Personally, while I do think there should be a greater role for women in the services and this is one of them, at the back of my mind this just smacks to me as Government speak for trying to fill in the cracks in front line capability, and nothing to do with the former.

What do you think?
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 12:20
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It does make you wonder if this is the reasoning behind it, now you mention it. I certainly don't have any problem with the proposal, as quite a few of our young servicewomen have proved their worth in no end of roles, many of whom now wearing gallantry medal ribbons for services they have rendered while being shot at.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 12:23
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From last month
Convicted drug users and thieves will be allowed to join police | Daily Mail Online

Whereas the Army have recruited convicted drug users and thieves for over a decade.

Crackheads to fill cracks...makes a kind of sense, I suppose.....

My God, are they letting women in now?
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 13:48
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Ahem

http://http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/552639-what-waste-what-fool.html

Not just an Army problem, it seems.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 14:21
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Suckback 4!
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 14:59
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Apparently the RN are "borrowing" marine engineers from the US Coast Guard to keep our miserable 19 ship navy running due to retention issues

What will happen when they need to crew the two carriers???

The question of manning affects all branches of the Services - the Army especially is always moving people from unit to unit to keep them at operational strength
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 16:50
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This has a faint whiff of pandering to those who wish for greater "equality."

If there are those that wish ladies are also given the same opportunity to die in combat with men, then let it be.

I for one don't care a jot. As long as standards are maintained. You can either pass an Infantry Combat Fitness test (and the multitude of other physically demanding tasks) or you can't. The standards are set because they reflect the toughness of modern soldiering, carrying lots of equipment.

Equality means doing exactly the same as everyone else. Regardless of sex, if you can do it, you're good enough.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 17:10
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RN is 'borrowing' personnel from the US- didn't something like this set off the War of 1812! I guess we've come a long way....
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 17:19
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Only some women would be capable of meeting the requirements for front line combat. If promotion is predicted on such combat roles will this disadvantage all other females?
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 18:42
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
...
The question of manning affects all branches of the Services
...
Quite so. Perhaps when the government will pay salaries appropriate to the role, AND the X-factor on top, and get shot of the historical baggage (crap accommodation, class distinction, training deficiencies etc) it will attract enough people to fill the roles it retains.

You shouldn't get a pay rise when you leave the services for doing a similar job. You should lose the X-factor and then be at parity. As long as that doesn't happen, then how can the MOD hope to recruit and retain the right people in the right jobs?
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 19:36
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Equality in a physical role. Hmmmm, so how come the RAFFT sets a hugely different standard for men and women? How does this fit with VFM?

OAP
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 19:53
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I made the very point at yet another E and D briefing ; the reaction from a (female) equality briefer was that the fitness test was gender fair. OK said I but war isn't!
There was no counter that .
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 21:06
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I read somewhere that the squaddies in the Falklands War were carrying up to 120lb over very rough ground in appalling weather for nearly 20 miles. Then then fought some pretty vicious battles.
Are we to believe that some slip of a girl is going to carry her fair share of the load...literally? Because if she doesn't some other poor sod will have to make up for it. All to satisfy some communistic vision of "equality."

This country if totally ******.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 21:27
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If standards are maintained, what's the problem?


There are male soldiers in the Army who might not be able to keep up with infantry basic and continuation training...
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 21:36
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As long as the ladies are fit...

...they can do any job they please.



I think I've expressed that as intended...
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 22:19
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Answer the point about carrying up to 120lbs over long distances in bad weather, then fighting a battle. I believe the Soviet Union (communism) were pretty hot on this politically motivated BS.
Comrade (gay marriage) Dave, must be right behind this one.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 22:53
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I can't see this working. Perhaps a few illustrations would help me visualise the future.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 22:54
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Stendec 5 you are on the money- I don't think anyone female will ever actually beat the standard set by the class of 82 who did that march and then fought it out to win the battles in the FI.
Does the country honestly want young women to do that sort of role anyway? I think not (they have a bad enough time accepting the present loss of young men in combat).
I wish someone would publicly stand up and say that to do the nations fighting like that it is best left to young hard men, and also tell them yes be prepared to look the other way while your using them, because the people who do the gutter fighting, the bloody infantry fighting aren't angels and you would not really wish to keep one as a pet.Simple as that.
This country is up its own arse at times.


Been reading Max Hastings "Armageddon" again recently and he covers a lot about the Soviet Unions fighting forces in closing stages of WW2. The Russians employed women extensively, but seemingly even they shied off from using them in outright close combat roles. Think a lot may have been as mechanics, radio operators, NKVD even. This despite massive losses of men in combat roles.
Why was this?
And I have to finish with this. Without doubt two of the crappest officers I ever worked for onboard a front line deployed vessel were both women RN lieutenants. They seemed to be both on a massive ego trip about being in charge of a group of men. They were a bloody awful pair, pretty unapproachable, too young, too inexperienced, very arrogant and very bad at trying to lead and bond a team together. Neither of them were a good reflection on the output of BRNC Dartmouth. I've never forgotten it or them and would cross the road to avoid either of them if I was as ever unfortunate to meet them again.
When you get men and women like you get a minor sex war going on anyway, does not lead to good unit cohesion in my most honest recentish experience.
I'm afraid there is a place for women in the military, but I'm sorry it isn't at the nasty, dirty, oily, spewy pointy end for the majority.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 23:00
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Amen, Hanger...

I remember from Catch 22 "What does a sane man do in an insane world?"
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 23:46
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Well HS,

The best immediate boss I ever had was a female S/L.

The worst immediate boss I ever had was a(nother) female S/L.

So, sex made no difference, in my experience.

Errm, not that I tried.


Oh sh1tty hell, that's coming out wrong.

As the actress said to the bishop.
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