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Chuck Hagel Resigns

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Chuck Hagel Resigns

Old 24th Nov 2014, 13:31
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Chuck Hagel Resigns

NYT - Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down Under Pressure

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel was asked to resign his post, officials said, as President Obama’s national security team has struggled to stay ahead of an onslaught of global crises.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/us...=top-news&_r=0
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 14:40
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So when did politicians become specialists in specific areas of conflict?

Just what is it that Chuck did which nobody else would know to do? Don't they all work in cohesion with the senior commanders of the armed forces heads of intelligence etc, and work from there. Surely any radically different approach to such matters would be on policy based on the kind of politician the Defence/se Secretary is or what kind of Government or President is in office?

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Old 24th Nov 2014, 16:36
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The truth might lie somewhere near here ...
Mr. Hagel, they said, in many ways was exactly the kind of defense secretary whom the president, after battling the military during his first term, wanted.
"Someone who just says 'Yes, Mr President' ... until he stopped doing it"?

As the US turns gently from a democracy to a totalitarian state, where the President calls ALL the shots and defies Congress and [marginally] the Constitution, I could imagine anyone wanting to bail out [or be sacked for not bending the knee to POTUS].
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 17:28
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I understand that the president has been accused of "acting like a king"

The thing is, in this country where we do have a monarch, she (or he) would be entirely unable to make decisions like, indeed they can do nothing without the support of their government.

I did ask, on another thread, how the US would work in the present situation it finds itself at present, with a president on one side of the political fence, and senate and congress on the other. It was politely explained to me that in such a situation president and government were constitutionally obliged to find compromises.

This does not appear to be working. So I repeat my earlier question - what is the point of having a president in a constitutional democracy when he appears to be able to exercise powers not available to a monarch in this country since the time of King John?
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 17:39
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I fear we are to found the answer to that question; if not in this administration than within the next few as each builds upon the precedents set.



As to Hagel, no great loss and he was acceptable loss for the current U.S. administration.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 07:24
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Hagel had at least one unique quality that no other SecDef has ever had - he served in combat as an enlisted soldier, receiving two Purple Heart medals while an infantry squad leader in Vietnam.


Points against him were: the only Republican in Obama's cabinet; he had reportedly "gotten tired of Obama's micromanaging of military operations".

The second point invites comparisons with Lyndon B. Johnson (36th President of the US, 1963-68) - who famously bragged “Those boys can’t hit an outhouse without my permission”.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 07:26
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If I agree with the president he is a strong leader, if I don't then he is a despot.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 13:11
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Effortless,

Well said
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 14:02
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Agreeing with the President is not the criteria which determines whether he is a Despot.

Whether he lives up to his Oath to defend and support the Constitution and faithfully execute the Laws of the Land....is the criteria.

We have a Despot on our Hands currently.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 15:39
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I suppose your last resort is impeachment (less messy than our solution of beheading, although that hasnt been done since 1649).

Still, proving that introducing legislation that you don't approve of amounts to "treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors" might be problematical.

Any other ways of getting rid of an incumbent, or do you have to just sit it out and grit your teeth?
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 16:00
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Alternatives include the judicial branch weighing in to break the logjam between legislative and executive.

Alternatives include the legislative exercising the ultimate control - that of the purse.

The first is painfully slow.

The second is politically suicidal in today's climate.

Beheading, you say?

Hmmm.....




*note to the NSA: I am kidding/joking/not serious/exercising satire and in no way, shape, or form condone violence.

No, really...
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 16:19
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It all gets a bit tricky when the US Supreme Court are "almost" political appointees, and serve forever!!

The Separation of Powers doesn't work quite as well as the Founding Fathers imagined it would go.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 17:35
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Sensible lad . . .
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 18:33
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Fox News now also suggesting that GITMO will be closed by Presidential Decree, since Congress won't agree with Him after 6 years of negotiation.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 19:02
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Naw, the real reason Hagel resigned was that it was just now that President Obama discovered that Hagel is a Republican.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 22:01
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!

note to the NSA: I am kidding/joking/not serious/exercising satire and in no way, shape, or form condone violence.
I read that as "note to the NRA..."

Somewhat puzzled for a minute or two. Must get new specs!

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Old 1st Dec 2014, 19:49
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So I repeat my earlier question - what is the point of having a president in a constitutional democracy when he appears to be able to exercise powers not available to a monarch in this country since the time of King John?
You appear to have a serious misunderstanding of how the US federal government is organized. The US has three separate branches of government. The Legislative Branch (Congress) is tasked with writing the laws of the land (and with controlling the purse strings.) The Judicial Branch is tasked with adjudicating/interpreting those laws. And the Executive Branch is tasked with executing/enforcing those laws. And "the point" of this structure is to limit the power of any one branch and enable any one branch to "check" the powers of the other two.

The current British Monarch is only the Head of State, a figure head position with essentially no power. The US President is Head of State AND Head of Government AND Commander in Chief. So yeah, POTUS has considerably more power than the current British Monarch. But the British Head of Government, the Prime Minister, has far far more power than POTUS because the PM heads the legislative branch, the executive branch AND the treasury, and Britain has no judicial branch.

As for the King John comparison, I challenge that. King George, who lived centuries after John, had far greater power than POTUS ever had, which excess of power resulted in a certain rebellion in the late 18th century.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 20:16
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Fox News now also suggesting that GITMO will be closed by Presidential Decree, since Congress won't agree with Him after 6 years of negotiation.
That seems awfully unlikely. Where would Obama send the terrorists who are still housed there? If he were to release them (which is within his powers to do.) the political fall out would be immense.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 20:24
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Ken,

I think it is a fair point that the incumbent President is taking the piss.

Congress to Obama - "Shove your immigration policy until you can sort out the abortion known as "Affordable Care Act" that you inflicted on us for vote-winning reasons".

Obama to Congress - "No, and furthermore, here it is imposed by Presidential decree".

Voters to Obama - "Your party has made a pig's ear of the last 6 years. You now have a Republican-controlled Senate and a Republican-controlled House to block your cretinous policies.

Obama "Oh, and here's another one - Gitmo's closing, on my orders before I lose my job"

On the night this selfish moron got elected, I was in the Hilton Baltimore. A very large atrium. You could have heard a pin drop when John McCain came on the TV to concede. Lots and lots of businessmen with their heads held low, knowing what was coming.

Still, only 2 more years to push, so chin-chin.
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Old 1st Dec 2014, 22:14
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Ken V - you are quite correct, I dont really understand the US system of government which is why I have quite often asked serious questions about it on here. My remarks about "acting like a king" were prompted by a US acquaintance seriously asking me whether it was correct that The Queen ruled the United Kingdom (she probably said England but I'll let that pass) and that we all had to do what she said!

My serious question in this instance was the news that the President had apparently enacted a law concerning the status of immigrants that was opposed to the wishes of the majority in both the Senate and Congress. It appeared that in spite of the checks and balances which you explain in your post, in this instance the President was able to act as a de facto dictator and there was nothing the legislature could do about it.

So tell me, in spite of all these checks and balances, if Obama says (for example) that from tomorrow everybody has to paint their face bright blue, will you all be walking about blue-faced next week?

(Oh ok, I'll give you George III, btw, - but he was a nutcase!)
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