Group Captain Carol Vorderman
I have no great wish to see ranks inflated on a popularity vote but the role of 'ambassador' is, I am sure you would agree, better served in a senior position rather than in that of a junior officer no matter their previous credentials!
CV looks a hell of a lot better in her uniform than my old matron did.
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I’m pretty sure I will rattle a few cages with this post but do so without any qualms. I served 17 good years in the Air Force leaving as a Sergeant with a reasonably good write-up. I have remained in aviation ever since and worked and played with many former and serving RAF types in my civilian life; commissioned and non commissioned alike.
My RAF experience in fact moulded my entire career, my early background as an ATC Cadet then a Boy Entrant being pointers to my early commitment. On the family side, My father was an Air Gunner in WWII and later (after I was enlisted as a Boy Entrant) was commissioned in the VR(T) branch later still becoming a Squadron Commander. Oh, just on the side my Grandfather was a RNAS CPO in the engineering branch during WWI.
I have always held the Air Force in high esteem but, reading this topic has left me dismayed and wondering where many, a percentage at least whom I assume have a military background, have come from.
To read many of the comments here one would be excused believing that an honorary appointment is something new in British military structure; it is not, although admittedly more frequently encountered with the army and then mostly filled by Royals. It needs be considered that an appointee to an honorary position, especially in the Air Force where honorary appointments are few, is generally of one who has a profile and ethos that places them in a position of respect and has been selected to fill that position by virtue of what is hoped that individual can bring to the table. There are great expectations of the chosen individual who gets no payment for filling the post though he or she can be expected to devote quite some time furthering the needs of their specific field of interest. I would also fully expect to find Group Captain Vorderman has to dip into her own resources from time to time.
There are some rather distracting comparisons posted here. To me there seem to be many not thinking this out in rational terms and there is an awful lot of comparing apples with oranges. Typically “there are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEF”. True certainly but (and I stand to be corrected here) I believe they will draw pay for periods of official duty, and I think it is also pretty reasonable to suggest their interest is as much in flying for the sheer pleasure of it as for youth work. I venture to suggest it would be hard to find an ACM, AM or AVM who has the skill set, personality, network of contacts and experience that those making the appointment identified as desirable when appointing Group Captain Vorderman
Then there are the rants by some that she should attend formal basic training in order to carry the rank and wear the uniform. I rather suspect she has plenty of advisers guiding her on necessary subtleties’ and anyhow, at the end of the day, she is not going to take parades, march in file or listen to charges, it’s not part of her remit. Nor is she the cause of people stagnating in promotion lists or jumping the waiting list for an OMQ. She is a person who has been appointed to a position that has its’ own rather special requirements and guidelines. She wears her uniform well and in fact looks better turned out than many serving officers.
The following words alone makes her deserving of some respect “Ms Vorderman, 53, has long been associated with RAF linked charities including the Royal Air Forces Association, the RAF Benevolent Fund and the Bomber Command Memorial committee, leading the Salute Area in Green Park when the Queen unveiled the memorial in June 2012.”
I really think people should look at the issue with a little more perspective rather than let their own petty gripes or insecurities get the better of them.
Per ardua ad astra
My RAF experience in fact moulded my entire career, my early background as an ATC Cadet then a Boy Entrant being pointers to my early commitment. On the family side, My father was an Air Gunner in WWII and later (after I was enlisted as a Boy Entrant) was commissioned in the VR(T) branch later still becoming a Squadron Commander. Oh, just on the side my Grandfather was a RNAS CPO in the engineering branch during WWI.
I have always held the Air Force in high esteem but, reading this topic has left me dismayed and wondering where many, a percentage at least whom I assume have a military background, have come from.
To read many of the comments here one would be excused believing that an honorary appointment is something new in British military structure; it is not, although admittedly more frequently encountered with the army and then mostly filled by Royals. It needs be considered that an appointee to an honorary position, especially in the Air Force where honorary appointments are few, is generally of one who has a profile and ethos that places them in a position of respect and has been selected to fill that position by virtue of what is hoped that individual can bring to the table. There are great expectations of the chosen individual who gets no payment for filling the post though he or she can be expected to devote quite some time furthering the needs of their specific field of interest. I would also fully expect to find Group Captain Vorderman has to dip into her own resources from time to time.
There are some rather distracting comparisons posted here. To me there seem to be many not thinking this out in rational terms and there is an awful lot of comparing apples with oranges. Typically “there are plenty of ACMs, AMs and AVMs happy to serve as Fg Offs on AEF”. True certainly but (and I stand to be corrected here) I believe they will draw pay for periods of official duty, and I think it is also pretty reasonable to suggest their interest is as much in flying for the sheer pleasure of it as for youth work. I venture to suggest it would be hard to find an ACM, AM or AVM who has the skill set, personality, network of contacts and experience that those making the appointment identified as desirable when appointing Group Captain Vorderman
Then there are the rants by some that she should attend formal basic training in order to carry the rank and wear the uniform. I rather suspect she has plenty of advisers guiding her on necessary subtleties’ and anyhow, at the end of the day, she is not going to take parades, march in file or listen to charges, it’s not part of her remit. Nor is she the cause of people stagnating in promotion lists or jumping the waiting list for an OMQ. She is a person who has been appointed to a position that has its’ own rather special requirements and guidelines. She wears her uniform well and in fact looks better turned out than many serving officers.
The following words alone makes her deserving of some respect “Ms Vorderman, 53, has long been associated with RAF linked charities including the Royal Air Forces Association, the RAF Benevolent Fund and the Bomber Command Memorial committee, leading the Salute Area in Green Park when the Queen unveiled the memorial in June 2012.”
I really think people should look at the issue with a little more perspective rather than let their own petty gripes or insecurities get the better of them.
Per ardua ad astra
Last edited by Q-RTF-X; 26th Nov 2014 at 10:45.
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Didn't ruffle my feathers - very well put, I thought Q-RTF-X
About the only negative re Gp Capt Vordeman's appointment I can think of is my suspicion that her standing as a science/technology role model, esp to young women, is perhaps best recognised by an age-group slightly older than that targeted by the RAF or ATC for recruitment. But thats small stuff: overall, I'm in favour.
I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one....
About the only negative re Gp Capt Vordeman's appointment I can think of is my suspicion that her standing as a science/technology role model, esp to young women, is perhaps best recognised by an age-group slightly older than that targeted by the RAF or ATC for recruitment. But thats small stuff: overall, I'm in favour.
I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one....
Gentleman Aviator
I see Gp Capt Sir Chris Hoy is another such ambassador appointment. Haven't heard any odd remarks about that one....
As this thread is discussing many aspects of honorary ranks in the RAF, may be allowed to invade to ask a question which I have wondered about for many years.
A friend of mine, sadly no longer with us, was a medical doctor and held a fairly high position in the Biological Warfare Establishment at Porton. As such he traveled extensively and, whenever possible, he had to use RAF transport for security reasons. As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board. Presumably in the air, the captain would be in command.
Was this just conjecture on his part or could it have happened?
A friend of mine, sadly no longer with us, was a medical doctor and held a fairly high position in the Biological Warfare Establishment at Porton. As such he traveled extensively and, whenever possible, he had to use RAF transport for security reasons. As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board. Presumably in the air, the captain would be in command.
Was this just conjecture on his part or could it have happened?
And what about the good old days when we actually had hospitals. Was not unusual to see an air rank surgeon or whatever propped up against the bar with junior ranks on first name terms. I would not have though any of them had done much of the Cranwell experience. I remember it always irked one particular Stn Cdr at Halton when he was put in his place by a higher rank when he had a go over Friday night shenanigans in the nurses bar. Always reminded me a bit like MASH.
As a very junior Assistant Experimental Officer I was posted to RAF Nicosia in 1961 and informed at Hendon [on 1st April!] that I was senior officer passenger on the Britannia and handed a brief case of despatches to deliver.
I had never met Equivalent Military Rank before. I managed to slope shoulders, a skill that I worked on thereafter.
The idea of being i/c hairy a*sed WOs was terrifying [and still is].
I had never met Equivalent Military Rank before. I managed to slope shoulders, a skill that I worked on thereafter.
The idea of being i/c hairy a*sed WOs was terrifying [and still is].
Last edited by langleybaston; 26th Nov 2014 at 11:00. Reason: censored
As a civil servant he told me that he held an honorary rank of Air Commodore and often speculated that, in the unlikely event of a diversion when civilian passengers had to be put up overnight, that he might have to take responsibility for them as the senior officer on board.
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20,000 plus views..... I do wonder if Group Captain Boris Johnson would draw such attention......
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NutLoose, Boris would have to have a bloody haircut before being allowed ANYWHERE near a Military uniform. 
As a former-VRT officer, now a CI, I'd like to offer a couple of points to this long, drawn out and frequently rambling discussion.
It seems to me that HQ Air cadets is finally getting into the hearts and minds arena with these appointments. It started a few years ago when they issued all the CI's with ATC-badged sports shirts and sweatshirts. Up to then, adult staff had nothing, and this lead to a whole shimmy of dress - some good some not.This simple act has given us much more of a corporate identity, and unit pride.
Now they have appointed two people who are Corps ambassadors
Anything that boosts the Corps image and standing in the wider world must be seen as a positive step, if only that it makes it that much harder for the bean counters to scrap the whole organisation as a cost saving measure.
Like the rest of the 4,000 or so ATC staff, these two people will be giving up their time to 'promote an interest in the RAF' (to paraphrase the Corps ideals). Surely that is something worth doing?
I'm sure many of you out there will have a view on this. Over to you!
It seems to me that HQ Air cadets is finally getting into the hearts and minds arena with these appointments. It started a few years ago when they issued all the CI's with ATC-badged sports shirts and sweatshirts. Up to then, adult staff had nothing, and this lead to a whole shimmy of dress - some good some not.This simple act has given us much more of a corporate identity, and unit pride.
Now they have appointed two people who are Corps ambassadors
Anything that boosts the Corps image and standing in the wider world must be seen as a positive step, if only that it makes it that much harder for the bean counters to scrap the whole organisation as a cost saving measure.
Like the rest of the 4,000 or so ATC staff, these two people will be giving up their time to 'promote an interest in the RAF' (to paraphrase the Corps ideals). Surely that is something worth doing?
I'm sure many of you out there will have a view on this. Over to you!
@Teetering Head,
Now where is the rest of that vidcap......the full length cap lol not with Chris Plummer in
RIP to Susannah though the other year.
So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT (as received email announcing the ticket sales start now) as Waddo will not be happening.
Cheers
Now where is the rest of that vidcap......the full length cap lol not with Chris Plummer in
RIP to Susannah though the other year.So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT (as received email announcing the ticket sales start now) as Waddo will not be happening.
Cheers
Gentleman Aviator
So hopefully we will see Carol at RIAT
And I'll see what I can do about that Vidcap chopper, may need to consult with BEag's cardiologist first though!
