New RAF Transport
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KenV,
I think that's the difference that a few months make in the FAF A400 programme - The RAF C-17 lifts started in mid-Jan 13; the first FAF A400M wasn't delivered until Aug 13.
In this case, it was purely down to timeliness, although i think it will be interesting to see how the practical comparisons work out in due course. It wouldn't surprise me if the C-17's width, and capacity for a variety of vehicles to be loaded 2-abreast will make a big difference.
It seems that, so far, A400M's USP is a few points of CBR on unprepared or semi-prepared strips...that will only make a difference in a minority of missions.
Still, we can only wait and see how she develops with proper time and effort.
I think that's the difference that a few months make in the FAF A400 programme - The RAF C-17 lifts started in mid-Jan 13; the first FAF A400M wasn't delivered until Aug 13.
In this case, it was purely down to timeliness, although i think it will be interesting to see how the practical comparisons work out in due course. It wouldn't surprise me if the C-17's width, and capacity for a variety of vehicles to be loaded 2-abreast will make a big difference.
It seems that, so far, A400M's USP is a few points of CBR on unprepared or semi-prepared strips...that will only make a difference in a minority of missions.
Still, we can only wait and see how she develops with proper time and effort.
Mali mission for UK C17
KenV
Look at the date of the MoD announcement - 14 Jan 2013. That was some months before the French took delivery of the first A400M. The French announcement was after that delivery. Therein lies the answer to your question.
The A400M can do the same mission but not with such a large load and landing at Bamako can hardly be deemed sexily/aggressively operational - it is an international airport with a French military main base on one side. The first A400M was delivered with a full capability for strategic missions of this kind. The other more sexy missions will follow on. I seem to remember the J being issued with similar progressive capabilities as its "block" upgrades provided additionally.
With all of these it is then as much about what you are willing to let your crews do. AD&S will demonstrate, and to some extent prove, increasing capabilities as flown by their test crews. It's then up to the operators to put them into operational use - but it was ever thus.
I remember visiting Charleston in the fairly early days to be told that when the C17 had arrived there it was initially limited to a 25 nm radius from base - not very useful for any transport ac, either tactical or strategic.
Look at the date of the MoD announcement - 14 Jan 2013. That was some months before the French took delivery of the first A400M. The French announcement was after that delivery. Therein lies the answer to your question.
The A400M can do the same mission but not with such a large load and landing at Bamako can hardly be deemed sexily/aggressively operational - it is an international airport with a French military main base on one side. The first A400M was delivered with a full capability for strategic missions of this kind. The other more sexy missions will follow on. I seem to remember the J being issued with similar progressive capabilities as its "block" upgrades provided additionally.
With all of these it is then as much about what you are willing to let your crews do. AD&S will demonstrate, and to some extent prove, increasing capabilities as flown by their test crews. It's then up to the operators to put them into operational use - but it was ever thus.
I remember visiting Charleston in the fairly early days to be told that when the C17 had arrived there it was initially limited to a 25 nm radius from base - not very useful for any transport ac, either tactical or strategic.
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Thanks for pointing out the timeline issues. I missed that. It would appear that the big driver for the UK Mali missions on behalf of France was that the A400 had not yet been delivered to FAF.
It was those early C-17 operational limitations I had in mind. the USAF crews were EXTREMELY limited on what they could do the first year or so. Those were not limitations imposed by Douglas, but by USAF and that was why I earlier stated I was impressed that FAF performed an intercontinental mission just months after delivery of the first A400. Either USAF was much much too cautious, or FAF was a bit reckless. I personally believe it was the former. In defense of USAF, C-17s started arriving shortly after MAC (Military Airlift Command) became AMC (Air Mobility Command) and the new leadership was skittish and over cautious.
In any event the VAB and VBCI armored vehicles used by France in Mali are compaitible with the A400 and cleary the A400 has the range to transport large payloads from France to Mali. It would take more sorties to move all the equipment using A400s than C-17s, but that's a pretty minor point. Cleearly, A400 meets the needs of FAF.
With all of these it is then as much about what you are willing to let your crews do. AD&S will demonstrate, and to some extent prove, increasing capabilities as flown by their test crews. It's then up to the operators to put them into operational use - but it was ever thus.
I remember visiting Charleston in the fairly early days to be told that when the C17 had arrived there it was initially limited to a 25 nm radius from base - not very useful for any transport ac, either tactical or strategic
I remember visiting Charleston in the fairly early days to be told that when the C17 had arrived there it was initially limited to a 25 nm radius from base - not very useful for any transport ac, either tactical or strategic
In any event the VAB and VBCI armored vehicles used by France in Mali are compaitible with the A400 and cleary the A400 has the range to transport large payloads from France to Mali. It would take more sorties to move all the equipment using A400s than C-17s, but that's a pretty minor point. Cleearly, A400 meets the needs of FAF.
Last edited by KenV; 10th Dec 2014 at 17:03.
