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The Untrainables

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The Untrainables

Old 4th Nov 2014, 16:51
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The Untrainables

Lansley: government has failed over Libyan military training | UK news | The Guardian


Grad story about failures by MOD in attempting to train Libyans to be PBI at a place called Bassingbourn.....to be honest my sympathy really lies with anybody within MOD who was collared into trying to train this mob.


Warning.A sorry tale that ends in rape, buggery, Conservative MP's, asylum seeking....not for MOD people..the Libyans that is.


Anyone live near here? Or involved in training them>? Shurley not as bad as this?
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 16:57
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It is extremely rich of Lansley, or any politician, to be criticising the MoD. I suspect the Army personnel running the course would have sent a fair number home on Day 1 if they had been allowed to.
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 17:02
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Yes, bit hard on MOD. In a different capacity entirely I was involved in trying to train some Arabian fellows once, and boy it was hard work, I admit it.
Such a contrast in ideas, outlook, lifestyle, religion of course, diet, rest periods..everything. Must have been mission impossible for the Instructional Staff here. Leading a horse to water and all that....
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 17:41
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It's all very easy to blame the politico's but the political intent behind training Libyans was surely admirable. But clearly the execution went awry. Perhaps it was always an impossible task but what was done when it became apparent discipline had broken down? And why were they still given the run of the town after the first sexual assault?
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 18:17
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the political intent behind training Libyans was surely admirable.
I disagree. The intent was primarily to be seen as doing something, and secondly to avoid boots on the ground. A moment's reflection or inquiry would have told the politico's that this was doomed from the start. Training small numbers of African officer candidates is hard enough, even when they've been cherry-picked. There is a wealth of experience in the British military in training overseas candidates, of which I did a small bit, and I suspect every single one of us said this was a really dumb idea from the start in the current PC environment. So,of course, they weren't asked.
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 18:18
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
And why were they still given the run of the town after the first sexual assault?
According to the news tonight, they were never given the run of the town. They were not allowed out of camp without an escort. These scum broke out, stole bicycles and went out raping whatever.
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 19:09
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Now they're starting to claim asylum. Couldn't see that coming.


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Old 4th Nov 2014, 19:24
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"...the intent was primarily to be seen as doing something" That surely summarises our whole Libyan adventure?
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Old 4th Nov 2014, 19:32
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
Now they're starting to claim asylum. Couldn't see that coming.


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Because they would be stoned for buggering about, rape and pillage?
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 09:32
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Just another example of how completely out of touch our politicians are. I have been involved in the training of Arabs over many years, including a Loan Service tour in Jordan. My first ever school was just outside Tobruk in Libya.
As has been said, different culture, different ways of doing things.
You have to adapt to their way of doing things or you will fail miserably. It is hard enough with the well connected Officer Corps so all problems magnified by a factor of 20 with the troops. Getting them up at 0600 and beasting them for 12 hours is a total non starter. Demanding the same standards from them as you would your own students is a non starter.
As to the culture? Ours would be totally alien to most of them and, sadly, some have obviously taken our liberal ways as an open invite to 'fill their boots'.
Doomed to fail from the start but politicians believe everyone is the same and that all will be fine and dandy.
A huge publicity stunt that has spectacularly backfired. So utterly predictable.
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 10:31
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Should of given them a few sheep, goats and donkeys to keep em busy!!
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 12:51
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Or bearing in mind full metal jacket was filmed there, a long fekking code red with some coal tar soap in a sock, preferably around the kidneys...
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 15:07
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Wyler,
Your post has a certain validity.
There is a parallel. I think it's called 'anthropomorphism'.
Just joking. Good luck.
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 15:26
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BBC News - PM says Libyan soldiers at Cambridgeshire barracks should not get asylum
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 15:29
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We had four Kuwaitis on my OCTU course, and they split them up, one per flight of 9 or 10 cadets. They all did pretty well, mucked in with the rest of us etc. The only thing I noticed was a marked reluctance to crawl out of their pits at 0600 every morning!

A couple of major differences - they didn't have "safety in numbers" and weren't living en masse in a group where they could reinforce each others actions. Also the Middle Eastern/Arab world was totally different then. This whole project looks absolutely bonkers, and doomed to failure.
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 15:35
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Should of...
How long have we been allowing abominations like this in PPRuNe?

Or should I ask 'How long of we been allowing abominations like this in PPRuNe?'
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 16:09
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Thanks, TTN. You've got it in one.
The problem applies also to our civvy society's huggy-fluffy 'multicultural experiments'.
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 16:58
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And back in Iraq as well.

Good luck with this then.
Why 'Sandhurst in the Sand' hasn't worked in Iraq - Telegraph


Army going back and having another crack training in Iraq again. Sighs.....I just cant see it working. In an age of military budgetary cuts, austerity for many, zero hour contracts for many, VAT at 20%, we still stump up money to train other people, races.......good money after bad.
I actually feel sorry for the officers sent here to do this, as well..poor bastards.


I know people wont follow my rant, but the money our Govt.has thrown away in Iraq..I thought the Conservatives were supposed to be the party that actually valued taxpayers money? Does anyone actually on here could tell me how much, since 2003 we have spent in or on Iraq? Is it even calculable, in cash?
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 18:22
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Hangarshuffle:
Not meaning to trash your rant ... but ... in 2003, your PM was of the Labour Party, was he not?
So who is/was throwing money away?
Looks like your whole Parliament got involved, at least a couple of parties anyway.

You can be thankful you didn't toss as much money into that briar patch as we did .. blood and treasure expended to ... what end? Well, it changed the shape of the Middle East, but is that the change desired / intended? Thinking the answer is "no" to that last question.
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Old 5th Nov 2014, 20:35
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The BBC's attempt at gaining a balanced view, has published this mealy mouthed load of rubbish.

BBC News - Libyan cadet in Bassingbourn claims 'poor treatment'

They didn't tell us about British law and what's the difference between right and wrong here."
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