The Queen strips an Army Major of his MC
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The Queen strips an Army Major of his MC
It appears he wrote his own recommendation... One just hopes those that may have deserved the award get it.
The Queen strips military 'hero' of bravery medal over fake battle reports - Home News - UK - The Independent
The Queen strips military 'hero' of bravery medal over fake battle reports - Home News - UK - The Independent
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Very sad, he now lives forever as a fake. Trouble is, he walked the walk in afghan. Anyone who does a tour deserves respect, what on earth was he thinking???
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
So the real story was he had classified docs and ammo at his home, once that investigation was under way the rest came out. And yes, there are literally thousands of Army officers walking around with false gallantry awards because Iraq and Afghanistan were obviously such easy deployments. Great example of both (a) conflation, and (b) correlation not equalling causation there Secret.
There has been a provision to order the forfeiture of the Military Cross since its introduction in 1914. I have no idea how many have been forfeited since then, but I am sure that some of the 50,000 odd crosses awarded in the 100 years of its life must have been returned.
A similar provision exists for forfeiture of the Victoria Cross, and up to 1920 there had been 8 cases of VCs being forfeited, one after the recipient was convicted of bigamy! However in that year King George V expressed strong objections to this practice and in fact none has been forfeited since then. He was reputed to have said that even if he were standing on the gallows, a man should not be deprived of his Victoria Cross.
I think it would be a highly unlikely situation to come up now, but nevertheless should it ever arise a very difficult decision would be faced by The Queen, or whoever advises her in these matters, whether or not to go against the precedent set by her grandfather.
Two's in - literally thousands? Really? I can't believe that. I assume you are talking about the US Army, as total numbers of British awards for both conflicts do not come to anything like that figure - barely in 3 figures, I would guess.
A similar provision exists for forfeiture of the Victoria Cross, and up to 1920 there had been 8 cases of VCs being forfeited, one after the recipient was convicted of bigamy! However in that year King George V expressed strong objections to this practice and in fact none has been forfeited since then. He was reputed to have said that even if he were standing on the gallows, a man should not be deprived of his Victoria Cross.
I think it would be a highly unlikely situation to come up now, but nevertheless should it ever arise a very difficult decision would be faced by The Queen, or whoever advises her in these matters, whether or not to go against the precedent set by her grandfather.
Two's in - literally thousands? Really? I can't believe that. I assume you are talking about the US Army, as total numbers of British awards for both conflicts do not come to anything like that figure - barely in 3 figures, I would guess.
Indi:
Not entirely unprecedented.
DM:
So, who broke that part of the agreement?
As a one time 'cold warrior', I agree with the "walked the walk in afghan. Anyone who does a tour deserves respect" comment.
The judge at Colchester Military court said Armstrong had demonstrated a “cavalier attitude” to handling dangerous material.
DM:
Armstrong is believed to have declined to appeal and offered to voluntarily decline the award, provided there was no publicity.
As a one time 'cold warrior', I agree with the "walked the walk in afghan. Anyone who does a tour deserves respect" comment.
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Nutloose,
In one of my past Posts (around Page 150 on the "Pilots Brevet in WWII" Thread) I tell the tale of a Wg. Cdr. Nicholson, a fighter pilot who got a VC on his own unsupported statement of events in much the same way.
But in his case there was no suggestion of fraud, and he was put up for the award by his superiors (I believe he was a F/Lt at the time), not by himself.
In one of my past Posts (around Page 150 on the "Pilots Brevet in WWII" Thread) I tell the tale of a Wg. Cdr. Nicholson, a fighter pilot who got a VC on his own unsupported statement of events in much the same way.
But in his case there was no suggestion of fraud, and he was put up for the award by his superiors (I believe he was a F/Lt at the time), not by himself.
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I'll quietly wager that for every military bravery award handed out, there's probably another three that should have been handed out - but weren't, because of no witnesses, inadequate witnesses, dead witnesses, and evidence destroyed by other war activities.
Possibly the greatest travesty of all was the tendency in the earlier years, to hand out awards to officers, rather than the OR's who actually earnt them.
There are probably some of the most incredible bravery stories that have never been told because there were no survivors, or the survivors didn't survive long enough to tell their story.
I often wonder what went on, on the HMAS Sydney in November 1941, of bravery that has never been revealed.
It really is a shame that people who have trod in war zones and faced the enemy, and who have run the gauntlet of fire and potential fire, and the risk of mines, IED's, and the countless ways that combat zones create personal stress - then try to make it appear they were superior to everyone else who stood alongside them.
Their behaviour does offer pointers that these people have major inferiority complexes, and perhaps Walter Mitty complexes as well, that rule their lives.
Possibly the greatest travesty of all was the tendency in the earlier years, to hand out awards to officers, rather than the OR's who actually earnt them.
There are probably some of the most incredible bravery stories that have never been told because there were no survivors, or the survivors didn't survive long enough to tell their story.
I often wonder what went on, on the HMAS Sydney in November 1941, of bravery that has never been revealed.
It really is a shame that people who have trod in war zones and faced the enemy, and who have run the gauntlet of fire and potential fire, and the risk of mines, IED's, and the countless ways that combat zones create personal stress - then try to make it appear they were superior to everyone else who stood alongside them.
Their behaviour does offer pointers that these people have major inferiority complexes, and perhaps Walter Mitty complexes as well, that rule their lives.
I read the Independent report and there's nothing in it that isn't common place, although the ammunition at home bit is silly of him. Classified docs at home? MoD wouldn't function without it. A senior officer's "leadership" being deemed more worthy than the actual deed by a junior? Gongs are rationed and at a certain level it's more important the Regiment gets one. It has always been so. There's got to more to this story?
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Is it any different to getting a recommendation off your "best mate", while the "not so popular guy" would not get such a glowing write up for the same action?
Wasn't there a Fairey Battle with a crew of 3... The 2 commissioned got a posthumous VC while the LAC rear gunner did not?
Wasn't there a Fairey Battle with a crew of 3... The 2 commissioned got a posthumous VC while the LAC rear gunner did not?
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This is already following the gentleman concerned around - I worked with him last year until the organisation found out about this...then he wasn't working there any more.
I think he probably regrets it.
I think he probably regrets it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I suspect that there will be very few officers, certainly senior ones, that don't have "classified" documents on computer o r paper at home. For a start, even the most mundane documents have been Restricted.
In the past it has been easier to use one's own computer rather than often antiquated service machines.
A good erase program is essential.
In the past it has been easier to use one's own computer rather than often antiquated service machines.
A good erase program is essential.
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gijoe
Why are you so dismissive ?
'This kind of dishonesty' is becoming more and more common throughout the British forces I'm afraid. Living also in ARRSE land as I do I quite familiar with lots of similar tales of all three services. What makes fraud easy in modern times is the fact that service personnel have access to their own home computers, service computer terminals, home scanners and printers and it's quite easy to scan and manufacture paperwork from qualifications to promotions etc.
Greed is often a motive for this kind of fraud, but with regards to qualifications the inferiority complex idea mentioned above is just so right.........
While there are fake SAS men found there are rarely fake clerks found
Why are you so dismissive ?
'This kind of dishonesty' is becoming more and more common throughout the British forces I'm afraid. Living also in ARRSE land as I do I quite familiar with lots of similar tales of all three services. What makes fraud easy in modern times is the fact that service personnel have access to their own home computers, service computer terminals, home scanners and printers and it's quite easy to scan and manufacture paperwork from qualifications to promotions etc.
Greed is often a motive for this kind of fraud, but with regards to qualifications the inferiority complex idea mentioned above is just so right.........
While there are fake SAS men found there are rarely fake clerks found
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Fake medal citation.....sounds the same as pilots never being known (caught) making false entries in their log books to claim "experience" they never had.
The moral is same.......
MB
The moral is same.......
MB
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The answer is no-one. At least no-one with the authority or qualification to do so. None of that happens and so the information is thereby compromised. Granted, a RESTRICTED copy of say, routine orders offers very low level intelligence, but intelligence none the less. Anyone who has a SECRET document on their own machine needs to go to jail, frankly.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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I would be surprised if Military computers were not using the SSD self destructing hard drives these days.
In case you are unaware
http://securedrives.co.uk/index.php?...tegory&path=75
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFi2c73ugyg from 2.20 on is where she triggers it.
In case you are unaware
http://securedrives.co.uk/index.php?...tegory&path=75
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFi2c73ugyg from 2.20 on is where she triggers it.
Danny 42C- James Nicholson
Danny 42C, sir,
I had the pleasure of attending a lecture/talk by James Nicholson's great nephew ( I think that was the connection, although there definitely was a family connection) also James Nicholson, a couple of years ago.
I'm sure everyone knows the tale of how Flt Lt Nicholson was awarded his VC, in fact JN's story was told almost word for word as I had previously heard it from Wg Cdr Tom Neil (who was JN's colleague and wingman on 249 Sqn), but JN junior had something of great interest. A copy of the citation written for the medal.
I was quite surprised to see that Flt Lt Nicholson was written up for a DFC, only for both Dowding and Park to recommend a VC (they both had annotated the citation accordingly).
All the best
TO
I had the pleasure of attending a lecture/talk by James Nicholson's great nephew ( I think that was the connection, although there definitely was a family connection) also James Nicholson, a couple of years ago.
I'm sure everyone knows the tale of how Flt Lt Nicholson was awarded his VC, in fact JN's story was told almost word for word as I had previously heard it from Wg Cdr Tom Neil (who was JN's colleague and wingman on 249 Sqn), but JN junior had something of great interest. A copy of the citation written for the medal.
I was quite surprised to see that Flt Lt Nicholson was written up for a DFC, only for both Dowding and Park to recommend a VC (they both had annotated the citation accordingly).
All the best
TO