Guy Martin's Spitfire : Channel 4 Documentary
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Yak sh*t is no longer used by BAe as it is water based and I believe was causing corrosion. These days they tend to use thycol in construction. They would of had formers yes, as for squeeze riveters, not sure, are you aware on the likes of the Mosquito they had concrete formers they simply laid they plywood skins up on.
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Thanks Nutty,
Thiokol - general name for Polysulphide Rubber. Probably also known as PRC. last tins of the stuff I saw were Berger trade name. 1221 BT 1/2 or 1444 if I recall. we used this on the Chinook throughout and on pressurised areas of other aircraft. Sea King used Silcaset IIRC.
I believe the development work on these two part sealants/jointing compounds was done at Fairey Aviation in the 1950s by a scientist by name of Stan Maskell. Later became Chair of the Plastics and Rubber Institute. Stan was a good mate of mine.
I did not realise that the old Zinc Chromate stuff had gone out of favour. I only found out a couple of months back that Alochome 1200 had gone as well.
Never knew about the concrete used on the Mosquito.
I have some crashed bits of Mossie in my garage and no I am not going to reconstruct it !
Drag
Thiokol - general name for Polysulphide Rubber. Probably also known as PRC. last tins of the stuff I saw were Berger trade name. 1221 BT 1/2 or 1444 if I recall. we used this on the Chinook throughout and on pressurised areas of other aircraft. Sea King used Silcaset IIRC.
I believe the development work on these two part sealants/jointing compounds was done at Fairey Aviation in the 1950s by a scientist by name of Stan Maskell. Later became Chair of the Plastics and Rubber Institute. Stan was a good mate of mine.
I did not realise that the old Zinc Chromate stuff had gone out of favour. I only found out a couple of months back that Alochome 1200 had gone as well.
Never knew about the concrete used on the Mosquito.
I have some crashed bits of Mossie in my garage and no I am not going to reconstruct it !
Drag
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Alocrom 1200 is still in use
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I watched it this evening on Ch4 OD and I agree with everyone. Guy Martin is certainly the most appropriate successor to 'Our Fred' and for all the reasons given. His enthusiasm, his genuine love of machines and the history of them, his very obvious meticulous skills as an engineer and his great respect for the men and women who did the job day after day.
A number of times he dismissed any efforts he had made and was unstinting in praise for the Duxford team. Having said that, you can tell an engineer by what they look at and, more importantly touch. When I go to the science museum, I can't help touching these things. The mere fact that Guy was allowed to cut metal on real components, meant that his skills had been reccognised and not found wanting.
And the aeroplane itself? What can one say? It's a real Mk1 Spitfire and therefore is beautiful. QED.
Digressing slightly, I was camping at Downe Camp (Downe Scout Activity Centre to give it its proper name) next to Biggin Hill, two weekends ago and on Saturday afternoon we were treated to someone in a Spitfire not only 'having it, but flaunting it'. Five or six good passes over our heads and the sound never ceases to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Was that one of the two seat ones?
And on the same day (I think, it may have been the Sunday) I heard an aeroplane passing overhead and went out to check it, because it sort of sounded like a Merlin, but somehow not quite. When I looked at it my immediate reaction was; Hurricane? On its own? Just overflying Biggin? Then I wondered if there is a flyable 'scale model' based there or elsewhere? I am getting very rusty now, but in my time I have competed at the Air Britain Society Interservice Air Spotting Competition - if such a thing still exits?
Roger
A number of times he dismissed any efforts he had made and was unstinting in praise for the Duxford team. Having said that, you can tell an engineer by what they look at and, more importantly touch. When I go to the science museum, I can't help touching these things. The mere fact that Guy was allowed to cut metal on real components, meant that his skills had been reccognised and not found wanting.
And the aeroplane itself? What can one say? It's a real Mk1 Spitfire and therefore is beautiful. QED.
Digressing slightly, I was camping at Downe Camp (Downe Scout Activity Centre to give it its proper name) next to Biggin Hill, two weekends ago and on Saturday afternoon we were treated to someone in a Spitfire not only 'having it, but flaunting it'. Five or six good passes over our heads and the sound never ceases to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Was that one of the two seat ones?
And on the same day (I think, it may have been the Sunday) I heard an aeroplane passing overhead and went out to check it, because it sort of sounded like a Merlin, but somehow not quite. When I looked at it my immediate reaction was; Hurricane? On its own? Just overflying Biggin? Then I wondered if there is a flyable 'scale model' based there or elsewhere? I am getting very rusty now, but in my time I have competed at the Air Britain Society Interservice Air Spotting Competition - if such a thing still exits?
Roger
No idea how people can process at thet speed with no margin at all for error.
but in my time I have competed at the Air Britain Society Interservice Air Spotting Competition - if such a thing still exits?
Riding a big motorbike at high speed = just a tiny, little bit like flying a fast jet.
Always pay attention, don't let it get ahead of you, situational awareness is a must, as are fast reactions.
And if you're in the least bit slack or cocky, it will bite you - quickly - and big time.
My country wouldn't let me fly the latter, that's why I ride the former.
Always pay attention, don't let it get ahead of you, situational awareness is a must, as are fast reactions.
And if you're in the least bit slack or cocky, it will bite you - quickly - and big time.
My country wouldn't let me fly the latter, that's why I ride the former.
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Chugalug, (your #50)
Wasn't he the chap who wrote , that on one of his early BoB dogfights aircraft were whirling around all over the sky; he had no idea what was going on, then suddenly this Me 110 (Wiki) appeared in front of him at point-blank range, all he had to do was press the button and down it went - his first "kill" ! (Or was it another of the BoB aces ? - it was one of them).
I never knew he was in the IAF in the Burma campaign. It would be in either 7 or 8 Sqdns (both ex-VV , re-equipped with Spit XIVs; my old friend Niel Ker - (with whom I shared the Adj job on 20 Sqdn at Valley in the '50s), flew the XIVs on 8.
There must have been something in the air of New Zealand in those days which produced brilliant plastic surgeons. Beside Harold Gillies at Park Prewett Hospital, there was Archibald McIndoe at the Queen Victoria in East Grinstead (a name which resounded round the RAF in the war, but might mean something to one in a thousand of the general public today).
My daughter spent 20 years of her nusrsing career at the Queen Victoria, and remembers Bob Doe well, as he always attended the "Guinea Pig" reunions held there.
I like Wiki's quotation from Wg. Cdr. Doe, DSO, DFC and Bar (RIP):
"Quotations[edit] We do not want to be remembered as heroes, we ask only to be remembered for what we did ... that's all".
(I'm with him 100% on that - couldn't put it better myself)......Danny.
Wasn't he the chap who wrote , that on one of his early BoB dogfights aircraft were whirling around all over the sky; he had no idea what was going on, then suddenly this Me 110 (Wiki) appeared in front of him at point-blank range, all he had to do was press the button and down it went - his first "kill" ! (Or was it another of the BoB aces ? - it was one of them).
I never knew he was in the IAF in the Burma campaign. It would be in either 7 or 8 Sqdns (both ex-VV , re-equipped with Spit XIVs; my old friend Niel Ker - (with whom I shared the Adj job on 20 Sqdn at Valley in the '50s), flew the XIVs on 8.
There must have been something in the air of New Zealand in those days which produced brilliant plastic surgeons. Beside Harold Gillies at Park Prewett Hospital, there was Archibald McIndoe at the Queen Victoria in East Grinstead (a name which resounded round the RAF in the war, but might mean something to one in a thousand of the general public today).
My daughter spent 20 years of her nusrsing career at the Queen Victoria, and remembers Bob Doe well, as he always attended the "Guinea Pig" reunions held there.
I like Wiki's quotation from Wg. Cdr. Doe, DSO, DFC and Bar (RIP):
"Quotations[edit] We do not want to be remembered as heroes, we ask only to be remembered for what we did ... that's all".
(I'm with him 100% on that - couldn't put it better myself)......Danny.
Good Morning Danny, yes it certainly sounds like Bob Doe. As self effacing and modest as ever (though that pretty well goes for all in your generation I'd say).
Glad you found his Wikki entry interesting. It's a small world, isn't it?
As for Sir Archibald, I'm pleased to say that a statue has at last been dedicated to him at East Grinstead. A very remarkable man indeed.
Glad you found his Wikki entry interesting. It's a small world, isn't it?
As for Sir Archibald, I'm pleased to say that a statue has at last been dedicated to him at East Grinstead. A very remarkable man indeed.
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Mainjafad
It wasn't an interservice thing, as the Civiees were allowed to enter it (though there was a prize for the best service team if memory serves).
The place was full of uniforms, of course, but the nice thing was (and actually still is) we didn't get a single smirk or 'Dib, dib, dib' from anyone. I saw that from the officers and crew of HMS London many years ago when we took a bunch of Scouts on board for a tour. When I visited the ship the day before, in civies, it was very much arms length, 'who are you and why?' The following day in uniform, with thirty odd kids, also in uniform, the Royal Navy could not have been more accommodating or friendly.
Roger
"Alocrom 1200 is still in use" - as is PRC in its many forms - anyone here been past PRC house (their HQ) on the outskirts of Washington? A brown abomination of a building when I passed by many moons ago.
Yak Poo is still available if you need it too.
R2
Yak Poo is still available if you need it too.
R2
Red On, Green On
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I'm not quite sure why the producers chose a BMW 535 for target practice.
The Bf 109 was powered by a Daimler Benz engine, so an old Merc would have been much more appropriate.
The Bf 109 was powered by a Daimler Benz engine, so an old Merc would have been much more appropriate.
I'm not quite sure why the producers chose a BMW xxx for target practice.
Anything which destroys these over-hyped eejit transports has to be welcomed!
and what a superbly satisfying way to do it!!
Pity it's not more widely available!
I find it difficult to think of it as a 'restored' a/c, to my eyes it is an excellent replica. Of course if it is accepted as restored it is worth many times more and comes with provenance. In the vintage racing car world there have been many court cases over this. In one there was an Auto Union Silver Bullet with history that the crashed bits made three cars, all claiming to be the real one. Millions of pounds stood on who won that particular court case.
I'm also interested in who actually owns a RAF a/c that is dug up? I'm sure there is someone on here that can answer that one.
I'm also interested in who actually owns a RAF a/c that is dug up? I'm sure there is someone on here that can answer that one.
Originally Posted by dctyke
In the vintage racing car world there have been many court cases over this. In one there was an Auto Union Silver Bullet with history that the crashed bits made three cars, all claiming to be the real one.
The excrement of an asian mammal now goes under the guises of JC5A or Mastinox.
The latter being a delight as it normally comes with dire health warnings.
At least one manufacture was offering a choice on build as to whether the aircraft was dry or wet assembled and priced accordingly.
JC5 normally gets used aftermarket as a bolt coating.
Some manufacturers e.g Agusta Westland have gone to solid film coating on bolts. Total crap as evidenced by large rivet guns being used to drive out bolts. Maintenance wants to use JC5A or other non hardening coatings. However a standoff ensues.
Similar issues involve the old DTD 555 Etch Primer. Supposedly banned around the world still available in the UK, not for export. Having seen a whole series of Boeing 737 which lost large amounts of paint on their delivery flights you can understand why there is still a market for a proven product, environmental concerns not withstanding..
The latter being a delight as it normally comes with dire health warnings.
At least one manufacture was offering a choice on build as to whether the aircraft was dry or wet assembled and priced accordingly.
JC5 normally gets used aftermarket as a bolt coating.
Some manufacturers e.g Agusta Westland have gone to solid film coating on bolts. Total crap as evidenced by large rivet guns being used to drive out bolts. Maintenance wants to use JC5A or other non hardening coatings. However a standoff ensues.
Similar issues involve the old DTD 555 Etch Primer. Supposedly banned around the world still available in the UK, not for export. Having seen a whole series of Boeing 737 which lost large amounts of paint on their delivery flights you can understand why there is still a market for a proven product, environmental concerns not withstanding..
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Drag Artist,
This is the new Build Mosquito and shows the technique, because it was a low production run they built the moulds out of wood, they used to lay up the fuselage halves then would remove them from the moulds and fit them out with most of the interior before joining them along the spine like a giant wooden airfix kit.
Originally concrete was used as it was a stable material and not subject to the variances in size due to temperature, thus ensuring a standard size for the halves.
see
Mosquito Aircraft Restoration, Photos
Incidentally the DH Museum at Salisbury hall actually has a damaged half of the original concrete mould on display for the Sea hornet.
from
Salisbury Hall - Airfield Archaeology
This is the new Build Mosquito and shows the technique, because it was a low production run they built the moulds out of wood, they used to lay up the fuselage halves then would remove them from the moulds and fit them out with most of the interior before joining them along the spine like a giant wooden airfix kit.
Originally concrete was used as it was a stable material and not subject to the variances in size due to temperature, thus ensuring a standard size for the halves.
see
Mosquito Aircraft Restoration, Photos
Incidentally the DH Museum at Salisbury hall actually has a damaged half of the original concrete mould on display for the Sea hornet.
from
Salisbury Hall - Airfield Archaeology
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"I'm also interested in who actually owns a RAF a/c that is dug up? I'm sure there is someone on here that can answer that one."
The wreckage still belongs to the MOD. It is illegal in this country to pick up and remove any item from an aircraft wreck unless permission is first obtained. (But not sure about aircraft "residing" overseas such as a sand dune near Dunkirk).
The wreckage still belongs to the MOD. It is illegal in this country to pick up and remove any item from an aircraft wreck unless permission is first obtained. (But not sure about aircraft "residing" overseas such as a sand dune near Dunkirk).