If RAF / AAC had the WS-70 then what ......

[chopper2004]

Referring to reply I posted earlier , here is the magic million pound question - what if the great Tarzan / Westland scandal had not happened and we had RTM powered WS-70 ....( my thermodynamics lecturer worked for RR Leavsden and one of his projects was partaking in engine and flight tests of the only G reg WS-70 )

Speaking to a couple of SHF Wessex guys in the early noughties - it was interesting to hear their opinions 'if' we had the Balckhawk. Some may have said it be better choice than Merlin.....

any thoughts here ?

Cheers

[Davef68]

The CHF would be getting a new airframe rather than hand-me-down ones.

[GipsyMagpie]

I thought hand me downs were cherished much-loved items which are handed down to younger relatives. Seems in this case its a raid on the VHS collection at a charity shop by the older generation.

[Tiger_mate]

So many aspects of SH warfare have changed since the 80s that the UH60 being the optimum platform may no longer have merit. Its attraction was that the tricycle undercarriage with a tail wheel is seen by almost all to be the perfect composition of a battlefield helicopter, especially when sized to fit inside a C130 facilitating global reinforcement. This was at a time when Britmil rejected both C5 and second hand (cheap) C141 Starlifter due to a policy of not being prepared to lose a lot of troops in a single accident.

This policy faded with the introduction of C17 and an acceptance that Chinook was the optimum SH helicopter having shaken off its image of the Boeing death ship that it inherited in early (82 -90) accidents. Trooping with Chinook is accepting the risk of losing 44 troops in one go, a pragmatic approach given early teething problems being a thing of the past.

A Puma sized airframe remains the SF cab of choice for urban warfare - anti terrorist Ops. This is where longevity of UH60 was possible for the low cabin of UH60 is its Achilles heel for most of the time. Had UH60 been embraced, Merlin would have almost certainly been the exclusive domain of the Royal Navy and italian - Danish AF. Puma 2 probably would not have happened and Puma 1 would be retiring on time about now. Leaving a fleet of UH60 and Chinook which would have been no bad thing. Would we have embraced Cougar or NH90? That perhaps is the question of the day, for austerity has probably influenced the decision to upgrade Puma; a fleet that has almost universal Cat 3/4 repaired airframes extant including the odd cut and shunt airframe.

In the end Westlands were considered worth saving even if Rolls Royce suffered.

[chinook240]

We would have bought 22 more CH47 instead of Merlin, to meet the Army's lift requirement in the mid 90s. Ultimately we would have been able to provide more capable lift in Helmand. Less vehicle convoys. Less ..........

[Boudreaux Bob]

Be honest....MD's Blackhawks, Apaches, and Chinooks are the right answer for any number of reasons. That is why the US Army have so many of all of them.

Being different does not make it better as proven by the MOD decisions re helicopters. They got the right Types with the Apache and Chinook but dropped the Ball big time on the the rest.

[Davef68]

I seem to recall (vaguely) that the UH-60 was considered too small for the size of unit the Army wanted SH to carry.

There was a time in the early 80s when a Super Puma buy looked likely to replace the Wessex

[Tiger_mate]

Conspiracy theory: Early eighties and the supply of Exocet to South America probably put paid to any aspiration of Super Puma replacing Puma.

[Faithless]

"the UH-60 was considered too small for the size of unit the Army wanted SH to carry."

Now it's fixed with Wastelands Wildcrap aye?

[Boudreaux Bob]

Or was it that the BlackHawk would not fit under a standard issue Camo Net?