RAF to Import Ebola
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Stand the RAF down, looks like it's got here on it's own.
BBC News - Ebola outbreak: Suspected case in County Donegal
BBC News - Ebola outbreak: Suspected case in County Donegal
Hmm "
"Until a diagnosis is confirmed, and as a precautionary measure, the individual's remains will stay in the mortuary pending the laboratory results which are expected late (on Friday)."
The post-mortem room at the hospital will remain sealed-off for up to 18 hours."
I would have thought the whole mortuary be sealed off ....and the staff themselves from the A & E doctor, the porters to the path techs and prob pathologist be quarantined?
Also the HSE will have asked that all passengers traveling on the same flight as him to be quarantined?
This reminds me of the 1990 medical thriller Pestilence by Ken McClure -in the opening chapter - whereby our hero, the duty doctor - spies the gents in the black van , pulling outside the hospital mortuary (supposedly shut by his boss cos of fridge problems
) in the dead of night, don protective suits and masks and enters said building taking out the corpse ina box wrapped in plastic. He confronts them, gets whacked on the head and they are kind enough not to let him freeze outside and place him on autopsy table. He wakes up to smell Ammonia and Formaldehyde. The smell comes from the area where the reefers are and the doors that separate the autopsy lab and the reefers are bolted shut. Problem is its all a cover up by the boss over a plague victim and leads to disaster as there is a plague breakout in this northern town (after an attempted murder on hero doctor by the alcoholic pathologist blackmailed into covering up the plague victims deaths by writing false autopsy reports on now cremated plague bodies, digging up of empty grave, confrontation and accidental shooting of the boss )
Actually back to my previous post with the Spanish Air Force bringing back the priest and his nun, would not the aircrew be held in quarantine for a day or so post flight?
Cheers
"Until a diagnosis is confirmed, and as a precautionary measure, the individual's remains will stay in the mortuary pending the laboratory results which are expected late (on Friday)."
The post-mortem room at the hospital will remain sealed-off for up to 18 hours."
I would have thought the whole mortuary be sealed off ....and the staff themselves from the A & E doctor, the porters to the path techs and prob pathologist be quarantined?
Also the HSE will have asked that all passengers traveling on the same flight as him to be quarantined?
This reminds me of the 1990 medical thriller Pestilence by Ken McClure -in the opening chapter - whereby our hero, the duty doctor - spies the gents in the black van , pulling outside the hospital mortuary (supposedly shut by his boss cos of fridge problems
) in the dead of night, don protective suits and masks and enters said building taking out the corpse ina box wrapped in plastic. He confronts them, gets whacked on the head and they are kind enough not to let him freeze outside and place him on autopsy table. He wakes up to smell Ammonia and Formaldehyde. The smell comes from the area where the reefers are and the doors that separate the autopsy lab and the reefers are bolted shut. Problem is its all a cover up by the boss over a plague victim and leads to disaster as there is a plague breakout in this northern town (after an attempted murder on hero doctor by the alcoholic pathologist blackmailed into covering up the plague victims deaths by writing false autopsy reports on now cremated plague bodies, digging up of empty grave, confrontation and accidental shooting of the boss )Actually back to my previous post with the Spanish Air Force bringing back the priest and his nun, would not the aircrew be held in quarantine for a day or so post flight?
Cheers
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Bringing back infected patients in a C-17 is ridiculous, especially since the boys are on the warm down from theatre and they're bringing equipment back, with the possibility of going back in to theatre again in Iraq......
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BBC News - Ebola reports: Dessie Quinn did not have Ebola say health authorities
Apparently, he was being treated for malaria prior to his death, something the journos neglected to inform us in the initial story.
Should that not be 21 days in quarantine, if it can take 21 days for any symptoms to occur, or is that just 'not workable' and therefore not required?
Apparently, he was being treated for malaria prior to his death, something the journos neglected to inform us in the initial story.
Actually back to my previous post with the Spanish Air Force bringing back the priest and his nun, would not the aircrew be held in quarantine for a day or so post flight?
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BBC News - British Ebola patient arrives in UK for hospital treatment
Let's hope they're right and they're not the same health officials who advised John Selwyn Gummer.
Health officials insist the risk to the UK from Ebola remains "very low"
Which lunatic sanctioned a C17 to retrieve one patient from an Ebola infected country and bring the disease to the UK?
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
I'm appalled by some of the attitudes displayed by posters on this thread. If I was still serving in the military, I would be proud to be providing humanitarian assistance to fellow Brits who have fallen ill.
May I ask what you would do if (say) one of the several British military personnel serving in Nigeria currently were to fall ill? Would you just let them die in some filthy Nigerian clinic?
As has been demonstrated by the US evacuations, the disease is containable and manageable if the correct resources are used. We have the resources, so lets use them.
May I ask what you would do if (say) one of the several British military personnel serving in Nigeria currently were to fall ill? Would you just let them die in some filthy Nigerian clinic?
As has been demonstrated by the US evacuations, the disease is containable and manageable if the correct resources are used. We have the resources, so lets use them.
So you would risk the whole population for one person?
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Quote worthy of the Daily Mail's readership. Hysterical, ill-informed and scare-mongering.
Nice to see a few on here have so much faith in both the abilities of my RAF colleagues to transport this unfortunate nurse back to the UK safely (using equipment and procedures that are routinely used to transfer patients with far more virulent diseases and viruses) as well the abilities of my NHS colleagues to contain, and more important, treat the patient in the UK. I can only assume the individuals with such strong views with regards this situation are learned chaps with many years experience in the healthcare sector, and perhaps further specialist knowledge gained from working directly with infectious diseases?
No, thought not. Stick to talking about BBQs smuggled back from the states or whatnot and leave matters of healthcare to healthcare professionals. I'm sure some of the most vocal on this thread are first to pour scorn on 'non-professionals' making uneducated comments about 'their' area of expertise.
Tim Stab
I fully agree that such individuals should be evacuated to better care and I have full faith in the NHS to safely contain the disease. However, in a similar thread regarding evacuations of non-combatants you said (my bold):
So.....simple question. Should this be a military task or a civilian task (I believe the two US cases were civilian aeromed) and should the individual be charged? I appreciate he was a volunteer (perhaps an individual believing he/she was doing the 'right thing') but either way he should have some form of medical insurance, shouldn't he/she?
This question links to the air sea search carried out earlier this year as well - where does 'military support' end and harsh 'commercial reality' start - is the bloke who goes on holiday to Ibiza, with the minimum of helath cover (i.e an EHIC) , entitled to military support to aeromed him home if he breaks a leg or an illness he contracts is not covered under the EHIC scheme?
And to answer your question - if it was military personnel infected then a C17 is the appropriate transport. The military are there working for HM Govt and, as you put it above, as the employer HM Govt bears the cost.
I fully agree that such individuals should be evacuated to better care and I have full faith in the NHS to safely contain the disease. However, in a similar thread regarding evacuations of non-combatants you said (my bold):
These sort of evacuations are best left to civilian commercial operators, who quietly get the job done with no fuss - and charge the commercial companies (mostly from the very wealthy oil & gas sectors) who put their people into these positions appropriate commercial rates to exfiltrate them.
When the MOD reacts to tabloid pressure with their heroic PR-releases blazing that "brave troops are facing bullets to risk stranded British ex-patriots etc etc blah blah" this distorts the commercial reality of commercial competition in politically risky markets.
Responsible companies put in place stringent evacuation procedures for their personnel - and then execute them at considerable cost when necessary. They are then commercially penalised by the MOD that comes in and bravely "rescues" personnel from useless irresponsible outfits that should not be even operating in the region because they do not put in place evacuation procedures and rely on the FCO and MOD to get them out of trouble.
A further consequence is that the RAF ends up taking away work from commercial operators who want the evacuation work.
...
For the moment, all evacuations should be at the cost of the employer and their insurers, and should be paid to the AOC holders who are still prepared to operate into the region. That should only change when no AOC operators are prepared to go - which is not the case at the moment.
When the MOD reacts to tabloid pressure with their heroic PR-releases blazing that "brave troops are facing bullets to risk stranded British ex-patriots etc etc blah blah" this distorts the commercial reality of commercial competition in politically risky markets.
Responsible companies put in place stringent evacuation procedures for their personnel - and then execute them at considerable cost when necessary. They are then commercially penalised by the MOD that comes in and bravely "rescues" personnel from useless irresponsible outfits that should not be even operating in the region because they do not put in place evacuation procedures and rely on the FCO and MOD to get them out of trouble.
A further consequence is that the RAF ends up taking away work from commercial operators who want the evacuation work.
...
For the moment, all evacuations should be at the cost of the employer and their insurers, and should be paid to the AOC holders who are still prepared to operate into the region. That should only change when no AOC operators are prepared to go - which is not the case at the moment.
This question links to the air sea search carried out earlier this year as well - where does 'military support' end and harsh 'commercial reality' start - is the bloke who goes on holiday to Ibiza, with the minimum of helath cover (i.e an EHIC) , entitled to military support to aeromed him home if he breaks a leg or an illness he contracts is not covered under the EHIC scheme?
And to answer your question - if it was military personnel infected then a C17 is the appropriate transport. The military are there working for HM Govt and, as you put it above, as the employer HM Govt bears the cost.
"I can only assume the individuals with such strong views with regards this situation are learned chaps with many years experience in the healthcare sector, and perhaps further specialist knowledge gained from working directly with infectious diseases?"
As this is a military aviation forum I doubt it! But we can have an opinion about the use of military assets!
As for the healthcare sector being "professional" I sometimes have my doubts. The NHS is hardly free from total cockups!
As this is a military aviation forum I doubt it! But we can have an opinion about the use of military assets!
As for the healthcare sector being "professional" I sometimes have my doubts. The NHS is hardly free from total cockups!
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As this is a military aviation forum I doubt it! But we can have an opinion about the use of military assets!
Which lunatic sanctioned a C17 to retrieve one patient from an Ebola infected country and bring the disease to the UK?
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
As it is though, and I speak from experience as someone who has is trained on (as part of my RAuxAF duties) and has used the air portable isolation unit in anger, that the use of an RAF a/c is eminently sensible and the right thing to do as it is RAF a/c we train with and usually* operate with! Bizarrely your seeming inference that you believe a non-RAF a/c should have been used actually opens up the potential for a breach in the chain of custody due to issues that could arise due to unfamiliarity of equipment being used.
(* Always as far as I know)
As for you fears about the NHS care, any organisation it's size is going to have examples of poor practice but do you really think such a high-profile case as this is being left to the kind of managers that caused so many problems as Stafford General? If you truely do then I'm at a loss at what else to say to you.
Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 25th Aug 2014 at 11:18. Reason: Remove grammatical error
No protective gear on the ramp?
Anyone noticed none of the NHS nor aeromedical personnel at Northolt appear to be wearing protective gear unlike the EMT Paramedics in the states and the Spanish medics and Air Force ground crew.
I did notice that, Chopper, but I guess they are simply moving the isolation unit and have no contact with the patient nor any bodily fluids. If the person in the isolator had a bad cold, I would doubt there would be any risk of infection for those same handlers.
But then, I'm not a specialist so probably shouldn't speculate.
But then, I'm not a specialist so probably shouldn't speculate.
Quote:
As this is a military aviation forum I doubt it! But we can have an opinion about the use of military assets!
Which would be all well and good if the thrust of your argument were solely regarding 'misappropriation' of a military asset, but given an example of your comments;
Quote:
Which lunatic sanctioned a C17 to retrieve one patient from an Ebola infected country and bring the disease to the UK?
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
It appears that you're far more concerned with a potential failing in well-versed procedures causing a release of pathogen outside of the controlled environment. I would argue (based on this unlikely chain of events) that the type of aircraft (military or civilian) is immaterial with regards to your fears over potential 'release' and are thus very much moot.
As it is though, and I speak from experience as someone who has is trained on (as part of my RAuxAF duties) and has used the air portable isolation unit in anger, that the use of an RAF a/c is eminently sensible and the right thing to do as it is RAF a/c we train with and usually* operate with! Bizarrely your seeming inference that you believe a non-RAF a/c should have been used actually opens up the potential for a breach in the chain of custody due to issues that could arise due to unfamiliarity of equipment being used.
(* Always as far as I know)
As for you fears about the NHS care, any organisation it's size is going to have examples of poor practice but do you really think such a high-profile case as this is being left to the kind of managers that caused so many problems as Stafford General? If you truely do then I'm at a loss at what else to say to you.
25th Aug 2014 10:25
As this is a military aviation forum I doubt it! But we can have an opinion about the use of military assets!
Which would be all well and good if the thrust of your argument were solely regarding 'misappropriation' of a military asset, but given an example of your comments;
Quote:
Which lunatic sanctioned a C17 to retrieve one patient from an Ebola infected country and bring the disease to the UK?
They must be bonkers! Not only a complete waste of public money but should there be some form of accident and others get infected then it could be a disaster!
It appears that you're far more concerned with a potential failing in well-versed procedures causing a release of pathogen outside of the controlled environment. I would argue (based on this unlikely chain of events) that the type of aircraft (military or civilian) is immaterial with regards to your fears over potential 'release' and are thus very much moot.
As it is though, and I speak from experience as someone who has is trained on (as part of my RAuxAF duties) and has used the air portable isolation unit in anger, that the use of an RAF a/c is eminently sensible and the right thing to do as it is RAF a/c we train with and usually* operate with! Bizarrely your seeming inference that you believe a non-RAF a/c should have been used actually opens up the potential for a breach in the chain of custody due to issues that could arise due to unfamiliarity of equipment being used.
(* Always as far as I know)
As for you fears about the NHS care, any organisation it's size is going to have examples of poor practice but do you really think such a high-profile case as this is being left to the kind of managers that caused so many problems as Stafford General? If you truely do then I'm at a loss at what else to say to you.
25th Aug 2014 10:25
Chopper 2004.
Anyone noticed none of the NHS nor aeromedical personnel at Northolt appear to be wearing protective gear unlike the EMT Paramedics in the states and the Spanish medics and Air Force ground crew.
The two American patients were moved by Phoenix Air who have contracts with the DoD and CDC Atlanta to move highly infected patients. Instead of using a self contained bio-hazard isolator they dressed the patients in sealed bio-hazard suits, with hepa filters, instead of using a transport isolator. Think of supadupa noddy suit to stop the pathogens getting out rather than in, a system in reverse.
The patient is put into an isolator, sealed up and externally decontaminated, remember your 'noddy drills' and decontamination procedures, so the crews do not need to have bio-hazard suits. Admittedly the Spanish isolator did look somewhat 'flimsy'.
On a last point there is NO UK air ambulance company capable of moving such a patient and worldwide I can only think one, Phoenix Air who are capable, nobody else will have the capability or skills to undertake such a transfer with minimal risk.
Should this young man survive, he maybe able to donate plasma, which maybe rich in antibodies, which possibly could be donated to other patients.
AP,
Yep remember attempting to tie my 'fish boots', very well
Did notice the tent around the stretcher of the Spanish as you said looked a bit flimsy, and they only used their normal paramedic ambulances and not the specialized vehicle as by the London Ambulance Service.
Though in the RAF Officer recruitment brochures, in our college, back in the early 90s - the RAF medical one talked about handling infectious diseases showed a b/w picture of Aeromedical team in Mk5 respirators and plastic suits carrying a stretcher covered with tent onto a VC-10. As was not there a case of an RAF aeromeedvac a nurse with Ebola around that time? The photo in the Daily Express showed the exact same photo.
Cheers
Yep remember attempting to tie my 'fish boots', very well
Did notice the tent around the stretcher of the Spanish as you said looked a bit flimsy, and they only used their normal paramedic ambulances and not the specialized vehicle as by the London Ambulance Service.
Though in the RAF Officer recruitment brochures, in our college, back in the early 90s - the RAF medical one talked about handling infectious diseases showed a b/w picture of Aeromedical team in Mk5 respirators and plastic suits carrying a stretcher covered with tent onto a VC-10. As was not there a case of an RAF aeromeedvac a nurse with Ebola around that time? The photo in the Daily Express showed the exact same photo.
Cheers