Allegiance
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It was a silly statement to start with tbh. The Monarchy and the Military have been intertwined since the days the Regent would lead his troops into battle ON FOOT. I suppose going down that line you'd have to advocate removing ROYAL from every prefix, and take Regimental Colours away as well..
At risk of being seen as a bit of an interloper, I can't resist saying this:
The problems highlighted in this thread are among the difficulties many people have with the idea of joining the military, me included. The public face of it appears to push the queen-and-country thing quite hard, with fairly simplistic appeals to patriotism commonplace. I'm not sure how seriously most of this is really taken by the sort of people who actually join, since most of them claim that in the heat of the moment, camaraderie and esprit de corps are more important.
But it's still fairly obvious that the military ultimately doesn't work for the queen, they don't work for the country, they work for the winner of the four yearly popularity contest. Personally I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that military force, while regrettable, is occasionally necessary and that if it is necessary it should be done as professionally as possible, but the decision to kill someone is not one I'm willing to delegate to a politician. I'm not sure how anyone ever justifies that delegation.
P
The problems highlighted in this thread are among the difficulties many people have with the idea of joining the military, me included. The public face of it appears to push the queen-and-country thing quite hard, with fairly simplistic appeals to patriotism commonplace. I'm not sure how seriously most of this is really taken by the sort of people who actually join, since most of them claim that in the heat of the moment, camaraderie and esprit de corps are more important.
But it's still fairly obvious that the military ultimately doesn't work for the queen, they don't work for the country, they work for the winner of the four yearly popularity contest. Personally I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that military force, while regrettable, is occasionally necessary and that if it is necessary it should be done as professionally as possible, but the decision to kill someone is not one I'm willing to delegate to a politician. I'm not sure how anyone ever justifies that delegation.
P
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
but the decision to kill someone is not one I'm willing to delegate to a politician
That's probably why having allegiance to someone who has demonstrated integrity, duty, commitment and faith over more than 60 years makes the harder decisions a little easier to live with. All politicians are totally devoid of those qualities, that's why we end up fighting the wars we do.
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Dont the RAF swear allegiance at the recruiting office, e.g. take and oath - sure everyone else does? About the same time you take the Queens shilling? Mr V says not. Me it's Q&C, never voted for the pounces myself! (and for way to long me thinks at this time if austerity!)
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Well good, because politicians don't ever make that decision. They vote for broad and grand political objectives that can only be achieved through military action. It is the military who ultimately have to implement those objectives who end up making decisions on life or death. There is not one politician around today who has enough moral fibre or integrity to even understand the consequences of military action in terms of "killing people". From the pilot or ship's captain releasing munitions to the squaddies firing back at the bad guys, it is the military who ultimately have to make and live with those decisions.
Excuse me? A military failing? The dumb little ****sucker couldn't utter the phrase 'we' (as in politicians) made a mistake, he just had to pass the blame.
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Bliar's adviser John McTernan was on 'This Week' on Thursday pontificating about how we should go back into Iraq.
Tell you what you odious little cnut, how about we go back in but YOU pick up a weapon and lead from the front.
No?
Thought not.
Tell you what you odious little cnut, how about we go back in but YOU pick up a weapon and lead from the front.
No?
Thought not.
politicians don't ever make that decision
That response does unfortunately give every asterisk-sucking politician the perfect absolution from all responsibility for the deaths involved, so I'm not going for it.
P
I joined the ROYAL Air Force and it really hit home at the CIO when they give you a bible and then stand you in front of a large curtain, which when is drawn is a large painting of Her Maj, not some robbing, cheating lying back stabbing politician !
As a SERE course member our attestation was on the first Monday morning at 09:00 in the Rotunda at Cranwell with the portrait of the Queen on one side and if I remember correctly the Duke of Edinburgh on the other, but could have been Lord Trenchard.
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Both I and the OH have our parchments signed by HMQ, God Bless Her, not some transient being (regardless of their political persuasion, propensity to fiddle expenses or intellectual capability). We served HM, and the Nation ... Sadly, the politicians were always the downside, regardless of political colour (And a few VSOs as well).
As an aside, it seems that when I was attested, I mistakenly signed allegiance to the Yang Di Pertuan Agong of Malaya, or something thing like that. However, HM accepted my service anyway, paid me for 30 years, and still permits Her Minister of State to pay me a pension. Sorry, Ma'am.
As an aside, it seems that when I was attested, I mistakenly signed allegiance to the Yang Di Pertuan Agong of Malaya, or something thing like that. However, HM accepted my service anyway, paid me for 30 years, and still permits Her Minister of State to pay me a pension. Sorry, Ma'am.
was a direct command from Her Majesty to one of her subjects. Did it for me.
No doubt the OP will be pleased to learn that he is no longer a British subject!
The OP who was, perhaps, hoping for more fun, must be astonished by the measured responses.
Anyway, I'm off out to become slightly inebriated at another ex RAF guy's abode and Mrs B has volunteered to drive - bliss. Must remember "Ladies and gentlemen, The Queen!"
Anyway, I'm off out to become slightly inebriated at another ex RAF guy's abode and Mrs B has volunteered to drive - bliss. Must remember "Ladies and gentlemen, The Queen!"
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'To our well beloved and trusted servant xxxx.
I always thought that the oath to the Queen was due to the monarch's non political affiliation. And in case anyone imagines that the Queen is some kind of proto Tory her favourite PM was Harold Wilson.
She has been a magnificent stateswoman for this country and it saddens me that she inevitably is coming to the end of what has been one of the finest reigns that this country has seen in modern times. Her sense of duty has been unsurpassable and of course she will always have a place in my heart after replying to the question posed to her at some diplomatic shindig of what she would like to have been if she were not the Queen. She replied quite simply 'A Yorkshirewoman.' Obviously a woman of great taste and elan. God bless you ma'am.