Air squadron Bulldogs - a question about speed!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Age: 64
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
7700
Very true but don't omit the extra weight of the crew! Back in 1979 when I joined up I was a stude with a personal AUW of 73 kgs, c. 11.5 stones. Now, though it pains me to admit it, I'm more like 93 kgs or 14.5 stones.
Add to this that all ac seem to put one weight as they age, more layers of paint etc. and as you say minor aerodynamic imperfections it's is hardly surprising that performance drops off.
MB
Very true but don't omit the extra weight of the crew! Back in 1979 when I joined up I was a stude with a personal AUW of 73 kgs, c. 11.5 stones. Now, though it pains me to admit it, I'm more like 93 kgs or 14.5 stones.
Add to this that all ac seem to put one weight as they age, more layers of paint etc. and as you say minor aerodynamic imperfections it's is hardly surprising that performance drops off.
MB
I don't think it can be down to tired engines. We had quite a few 'Dogs at Old Sarum over the years and none felt happy cruising at 120kt - even when I put a new engine in G-BULL a 120kt cruise needed higher than the book power setting, 110-115 felt a lot more comfortable.
FWIW G-BHZT (ex-Botswana, I think) had far the nicest "feel" of any of the 'Dogs that I've flown - and even had hard points and a trigger on the grip
HFD
FWIW G-BHZT (ex-Botswana, I think) had far the nicest "feel" of any of the 'Dogs that I've flown - and even had hard points and a trigger on the grip
HFD
I certainly don't recall using 25/25 for a 120KIAS navex.
2600 rpm / best power mixture / induction air cold, whatever MAP it took and to hell with the fuel consumption!
When we took a 10-ship from RAF Abingdon to RAF St Mawgan, everyone else used the normal 2400 / 19" cruise. I pulled the RPM back, pushed the MAP up to 'parallel needles' and leaned the mixture as far as I dared.....saving at least 3 gallons in the process. But we'd stopped teaching the use of anything less than 2400 rpm by then - and I gather that a few years later 2600 rpm actually became the norm.
2600 rpm / best power mixture / induction air cold, whatever MAP it took and to hell with the fuel consumption!
When we took a 10-ship from RAF Abingdon to RAF St Mawgan, everyone else used the normal 2400 / 19" cruise. I pulled the RPM back, pushed the MAP up to 'parallel needles' and leaned the mixture as far as I dared.....saving at least 3 gallons in the process. But we'd stopped teaching the use of anything less than 2400 rpm by then - and I gather that a few years later 2600 rpm actually became the norm.
Beags,
I was a Groundcrew member of UEF at Abingdon, and wonder if the introduction of the "Green Spot" injector might have had an effect on flight settings for performance. As an Airframe fitter, I had no direct involvement or great understanding of the MOD, but, I understood it was done to deal with the tendency to cut the engine under certain loading (a spin ?). Perhaps the introduction of the "Green Spot" made other differences. I know that in my time (77-79) pilots always asked if their aircraft had the MOD. I'm sure operators could probably put this to bed quickly.
Smudge
I was a Groundcrew member of UEF at Abingdon, and wonder if the introduction of the "Green Spot" injector might have had an effect on flight settings for performance. As an Airframe fitter, I had no direct involvement or great understanding of the MOD, but, I understood it was done to deal with the tendency to cut the engine under certain loading (a spin ?). Perhaps the introduction of the "Green Spot" made other differences. I know that in my time (77-79) pilots always asked if their aircraft had the MOD. I'm sure operators could probably put this to bed quickly.
Smudge
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,073
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look at book figures for any GA (and I include Bulldog in that obviously) a/c and then laugh as you try and achieve them. Mandator has hit the nail very much on the noggin. We changed the prop on one of our a/c and it gave a ten knot improvement in cruise.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,073
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
Well it would, fixed pitch props unwind over time so need resetting, this is done by re twisting the blades, you can additionally retwist them as cruise props or climb props. One thing I rue the loss of is the three yearly air test, fine until you find when you need it, the thing isn't doing what it says on the tin, the thing the air test used to pick up.
Last edited by NutLoose; 6th Jun 2014 at 22:43.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it would, fixed pitch props unwind over time so need retting, this is done by re twisting the blades, you can additionally retwist them as cruise props or climb props.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lincs
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Nutty: I had a chuckle when I saw the advert in your second link. Someone I know rang the owner about the aircraft and was told bluntly that the aircraft was not for sale!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off topic, but mention of Adam Wise & ULAS sparked some old memories. I was a non flying member of ULAS 1985-86, and in a very strange twist of fate have ended up as an AEF staff pilot on Tutors.
Can anyone remind me of the names and what happened to the QFI team from those years? I know the tragic circumstances surrounding Mike Blee, but I would be keen to know who the rest of the team were and what they did after ULAS.
Many thanks SP6
Can anyone remind me of the names and what happened to the QFI team from those years? I know the tragic circumstances surrounding Mike Blee, but I would be keen to know who the rest of the team were and what they did after ULAS.
Many thanks SP6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: California
Age: 60
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1985-86 QFIs
Hi sp6 - check your PMs - I have listed from my logbook with what I know for each. If there is wider interest, I can publish the list on this thread minus personal info or alternatively contact ULAS alumni organization.
Regards,
ABL262
Regards,
ABL262
Squawking 7700 #20,
Very true. I well remember a summer camp with OUAS at St Mawgan, when our boss, insisted that the leading edges, wing, fin and tailplane, were cleaned of insects between flights. We did so much that on return to Abingdon all four aircraft had to have re sprays on the leading edges. As an aside, I was fortunate enough to have my name painted on the side of 'Bravo' which was the mount of Flt Lt Mike Blee RIP, who was very kind in offering me many opportunities to share a flight. With a diminishing memory I wonder if anyone can confirm the Serial number of ' Bravo', ISTR XX661 but am not too sure these days.
Smudge
Very true. I well remember a summer camp with OUAS at St Mawgan, when our boss, insisted that the leading edges, wing, fin and tailplane, were cleaned of insects between flights. We did so much that on return to Abingdon all four aircraft had to have re sprays on the leading edges. As an aside, I was fortunate enough to have my name painted on the side of 'Bravo' which was the mount of Flt Lt Mike Blee RIP, who was very kind in offering me many opportunities to share a flight. With a diminishing memory I wonder if anyone can confirm the Serial number of ' Bravo', ISTR XX661 but am not too sure these days.
Smudge
Hi, I owned two of them, XX668 (G-CBAN) with cliff Hilliker at Colerne and XX657 (ZK-WUF) at Whenuapai. Had heaps of fun in both but never got anywhere near 130 kts+ straight and level, possibly if the old aerials where removed along with the weird strakes around the enormous strobes...
Cheers
Carl
Cheers
Carl
