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Harlech P38 lightning

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Harlech P38 lightning

Old 27th May 2014, 18:00
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Harlech P38 lightning

Seriously needs recovering soon, I can't believe these guys surveying it are walking on it!!!

Skyonix | WWII Lockheed P-38 Lightning Discovered on Welsh Beach

Perhaps the RAF Museum could put it in their greenhouse after the Dornier to Stabilise it.

Watch the film.
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Old 27th May 2014, 19:50
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Nutty ...

Looks like a crew are going to have a go at recovering further P-38's from Greenland ... Good luck to them

Warbird Information Exchange ? View topic - Greenland P38 Recovery Expedition
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 18:51
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...otected-status

WW2 wreck of fighter plane off Welsh coast gets protected status

The skeletal remains of an American fighter plane that crashed during the second world war off the Welsh coast, and occasionally emerge ghost-like from the seabed, have been given protected status. Welsh government officials say the resting place of the Lockheed P-38 Lightning, nicknamed the Maid of Harlech, is the first military aircraft crash site in the UK to be protected for its historic and archaeological interest.

The fighter aircraft is buried around two metres below the seabed off the coast at Harlech in north Wales. When sea and sand conditions are just right it becomes visible in the sand. Cadw, the Welsh government’s historic environment service, has given the plane scheduled status. It joins castles, abbeys and prehistoric sites as well as buildings and sites connected to the iron, coal and slate industries in Wales that are protected.

The plane crashed in September 1942. It was flown by Second Lt Robert F Elliott, 24, of Rich Square, North Carolina, from Llanbedr on a gunnery practice mission but got into difficulties and had to crash land. The pilot walked away safely from the incident but was reported missing in action a few months later.

His nephew, Robert Elliott, has visited the site and said he was pleased the wreck had been scheduled. “I am honoured and delighted that Cadw has given official recognition of my uncle’s plane as a scheduled monument,” he said. “My uncle was among those brave and expert fighter pilots who served with distinction during the second world war. My visit to the site in 2016 was very moving and emotional.”

The plane has been uncovered three times since it crashed – in the 1970s, in 2007 and most recently in 2014. There are no plans to salvage it.........


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Old 13th Nov 2019, 00:08
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I still needs recovering otherwise it will end up like the dornier, so corroded that what remains is virtually unidentifiable to what it actually is. it's not going to improve where it lies and as a wreck it is time limited if not already too late, it might look complete, but the concern has to be its structural integrity.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 00:39
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I still needs recovering otherwise it will end up like the dornier, so corroded that what remains is virtually unidentifiable to what it actually is. it's not going to improve where it lies and as a wreck it is time limited if not already too late, it might look complete, but the concern has to be its structural integrity.
It's probably gone beyond recovery already - and, unlike the Dornier, there are enough other p-38s in the world to make this bnot economic to salvage. Best leave it as an interesting beach feature.

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Old 13th Nov 2019, 10:06
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Isn't this the last survivor of its model though?
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 14:35
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Isn't this the last survivor of its model though?
No, the one that was pulled out from underneath a glacier in Greenland and rebuilt to fly is the same model (only 47 of a difference in registration number)
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 00:52
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
it might look complete, but the concern has to be its structural integrity.
I read this astonishing line with utter incredulity given the evident and advanced state of degradation of the partial remains.
Nut loose indeed!
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 12:33
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
I read this astonishing line with utter incredulity given the evident and advanced state of degradation of the partial remains.
Nut loose indeed!
One is talking complete as in the majority is still there, the wings, engines, pod etc,and one can assume the other boom could still be on site under the sand.
However the structural integrity may be so badly compromised that lifting it is impossible, and that is not going to improve with time.
The Dornier recovered by the RAF Museum was bad, but although this looks in relatively good condition in comparison. the skins and internal structure may be paper thin making it impossible to support its own weight during lifting.
The Germans had similar issues in lifting a near complete F-W 200 Condor out of a Norwegian lake, she looked in relatively good condition and more or less all there, however it held rather a lot of sand and when lifted clear and over the vessel it suffered a structural failure and collapsed onto the deck into many pieces.

For 57 years, a Condor aircraft lay 60 metres deep at the bottom of the Norwegian Trondheimsfjord. Then, in 1999, the plane was salvaged at the behest of the German Museum of Technology in Berlin.
GŁnter BŁker, an Airbus controlling manager at the time, was there. He travelled to Norway on his own initiative and at his own expense. BŁker, who has now retired, feels an affinity to the plane: his father was an aircraft engineer who worked on the Condor’s vertical stabilizer before being called up for military service, and his mother had a kiosk on the premises of Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau AG in Bremen, the company that built the aircraft.
In Norway, BŁker was one of the many people waiting and watching near the salvage platform. Everyone was holding their breath as the crane lifted the wreck clear of the water.
“The machine weighed about 15 tonnes more than it should have, as it was full of mud and sediment,” BŁker remembers. When the crane tried to set it down, disaster struck: the machine broke into countless individual pieces. He returned home “really frustrated. I thought that was it”.
Despite the setback, a group of Airbus pensioners have been turning the badly damaged aircraft into a handsome piece of commercial aviation history, together with the German Museum of Technology in Berlin, Rolls-Royce and Lufthansa Berlin-Stiftung.

In February 1942, the aircraft ditched because of a technical fault and has lain since then at a depth of over 60 meters (197 feet). The plane was acquired for the German Museum of Technology in Berlin, but recovery proved complicated because corrosion was worse than under-water inspections initially suggested.

In 1981, the remains of this aircraft were for the first time located in a Norwegian fjord near Trondheim. Experts soon realized the value of the wreck. The remains of a Focke-Wulf Fw 200 were an absolute rarity – the world's only known airplane of this type!

A group of 15 pensioners began to renovate the tail at the Lufthansa Berlin-Stiftung in Hamburg. Work started on the engines at Rolls-Royce in Berlin and Oberursel, and restoration and reconstruction of the wings and fuselage began at Airbus in Bremen. Just as in every other hangar on the site, people are hard at work, but with one major difference: none of the workers in this hangar is under the age of 60, and the oldest is 92.
For 14 years, this group of 60 volunteers, nearly all pensioners, has been meeting twice a week to restore the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor.

Their project leader is 70-year-old GŁnter BŁker, the man who witnessed the salvation of the aircraft. In Bremen, he was one of the first workers to set eyes on the wreck, together with his fellow enthusiast Peter Wiesner. There is no doubt in the minds of the Airbus' experts: it will all be worth it even though the plane will never fly again.

Aeronautical engineer Peter Wiesner has been involved in the restoration project since the beginning. The 74-year-old Wiesner was an aeronautical engineering officer in the German air force before his retirement. He says that there is something he remembers very vividly from that moment: the smell. It stank of fish, mud and moldy water.

“The wreck looked so bad that many Airbus colleagues told us to just throw the thing back into the water,” he recalls. Instead, Wiesner started salvaging parts and removing the mud, while BŁker was looking for more volunteers to help restore the aircraft to its former glory. In Germany, the Condor was considered the apogee of civil aviation in the 1930s and it was the largest aircraft ever fully constructed and serially produced in Bremen.
Measuring 24 metres long, there was room for up to 26 passengers. With a span of 33 metres, the wings were only 1.5 metres shorter than those of an A320.
The plane was designed by engineer Kurt Tank, who was head of Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau AG in Bremen, and built in just over a year.
“This was an incredible achievement by all those involved – from apprentice to plant manager”, explains work shop manager Peter Wiesner. “Everything had to be done by hand, even the design engineers had to use slide-rules for the calculations and draw the designs manually.”

On 27 July 1937, the Condor took off in Bremen and only one year later it had completed its record-breaking flight: in August 1938, the 18-tonne Condor flew non-stop from Berlin to New York and was the first landplane to cross the Atlantic – in 24 hours.
Fritz Schneider still remembers the attention it drew. The 92-year-old began an apprenticeship as an aircraft engineer at Focke-Wulf in 1939. He was still a youngster then and was proud to be one of the 176 apprentices with the airplane manufacturer in Bremen.
“Everyone was talking about the first flight of the Condor and it was reported in all the newspapers in Bremen,” he says.

What the team in Bremen has achieved so far looks promising. In 2016, the workers managed to connect the right outer wing of the aircraft with its inner wing. In addition, two 10-metre long fuselage parts were joined together for the first time: a major milestone in the project.

Now the restoration team is working on the left wing and the fuselage. While the wings could mostly be reconstructed using restored parts, the fuselage was damaged to such an extent that it has to be completely rebuilt.
It’s difficult work – like a giant jigsaw puzzle with a lot of pieces missing. The blueprints and many original parts no longer exist, so the Condor engineers have to construct new parts and then adapt them, which is painstakingly detailed work.

The aircraft will never fly again, but everyone hopes to see the day when it rolls out of the hangar once more. As BŁker says: “We’ve already lost a few colleagues, and the health of one or two is deteriorating. But we all hope that we will bring this to a successful end together. This project has become an important part of the lives of everyone who works here.”

BŁker estimates that it will be around another two years before the plane will look like it used to. Then it will be displayed in the German Museum of Technology in Berlin.
But the pensioners still have a lot of work to do first, including one of their greatest challenges: at some point, all individual structural elements of the plane will have to be assembled.
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...of-wwii.47665/

There is a film of it collapsing but I have been unable to locate it.,
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