Air Cadets grounded?
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 75' from the runway edge and 150' from the threshold
Age: 74
Posts: 247
Received 30 Likes
on
12 Posts
Hangar, Wot Hangar?
CGB - New build, paid for by Belfast City airport, IIRC, in return for getting 24M quids worth of leasehold that was the QUAS complex, where 664 was originally based,in order to enlarge BCA.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 71
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We should guard against becoming consumed by process, and trying to come up with a process for everything - in some misguided attempt to reduce risk to zero. In the end we would end up with people who stop thinking for themselves, and as a consequence risk actually increases. There is a balance point. We need to leave enough latitude for people to show initiative in striving to improve within a relatively broad framework. Even AP8000 (the RAF manual of Air Safety) says (in the Chief of the Air Staff's foreword) that 'risk aversion is not acceptable'. If we want our young people to become 'agile, adaptable and capable' then we need to give them sufficient space to 'grow'. That entails an environment of controlled risk and not some quest for zero risk (and thus zero gain).
I like the British Army's definition of adventurous training: "Challenging outdoor training for Service personnel in specified adventurous activities, involving controlled exposure to risk, in order to develop leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, moral and physical courage, among other personal attributes and skills vital to Operational capability." Some of the things that POBJOY has been talking about.
I like the British Army's definition of adventurous training: "Challenging outdoor training for Service personnel in specified adventurous activities, involving controlled exposure to risk, in order to develop leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, moral and physical courage, among other personal attributes and skills vital to Operational capability." Some of the things that POBJOY has been talking about.
ATFQ hits the nail on the head. "Due Process" and "Risk Aversion" are becoming the daily hoops to have to jump through in order to achieve even the most simplest of tasks. The net result of the Haddon-Cave report, good as it was, has now produced a whole raft of people who are frightened of their own shadows. Worse still, whole government departments have reacted in a similar manner whereby everything is subject to due process and additional layers of administration. Does the job get done any better than it once did previously? In general terms the answer has to be a resounding NO.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Differentiation between the three Cadet Corps
It is a long time since I was a VR(T) officer, and still longer since I was an Air Cadet, so acronyms like MAA and VSO allude me! In my time, the Corps was organized in Wings, with the OC Air Cadets, an Air Commodore – invariably a pilot - in his last appointment. Gp Cpt Willie Tait DSO***, DFC* was SASO. Evidently oddly by today’s standards, except for a minimum of regulars at HQ AC, the Corps was run by volunteers, save for the engineers who maintained the AEF Chipmunks and the Sedburgh and Mk 3 gliders.
I have long since lost my RAF Form 3822, but I remember flying in Chipmunks, Ansons, Hastings, Vikings, Varsities, and even, night-flying in a Hercules doing circuits and bumps at Thorney Island. This is most memorable, for the reason that I was kept busy handing out sick-bags! Memory fades, but my recollection is that AEF and Gliding Courses were sufficient to differentiate the Air Training Corps from the ACF and the Naval Cadets, and were huge motivators. Yes, gliding training mostly lead only to the award of the BGA A&B Certificate, but the pride of a 16 year old to receive his “Wings” for having soloed, was a joy to all and a great motivator.
So much for reminiscing! I presume the MAA is the military equivalent of the CAA and somehow has subsumed the tried and tested ways of acceptance of aircraft in RAF service. If so, why does it not concentrate on purely military aircraft, and why does not the RAF and the ATC adhere to civilian rules and regulations for aircraft which may be included on the Civil Register. For Air Cadets, that means they could be trained on gliders maintained to BGA standards and solo at 14, and fly (perhaps even in a civilian aircraft piloted by a licensed civilian pilot) in aircraft maintained to EASA/LAA standards, and if lucky enough to gain a Flying Scholarship, solo at 16.
Contributors to this thread are rightly focussed on gliding in the ATC, but I think I am correct in saying that Air Cadets of today do not have the chance of a week’s Summer Camp at an RAF Station. Maybe Duncan Sandys was right but ahead of his time: the RAF of tomorrow do not need aircrew, only drone pilots?
PS What are VSOs? Are they as useful as VASIs?
I have long since lost my RAF Form 3822, but I remember flying in Chipmunks, Ansons, Hastings, Vikings, Varsities, and even, night-flying in a Hercules doing circuits and bumps at Thorney Island. This is most memorable, for the reason that I was kept busy handing out sick-bags! Memory fades, but my recollection is that AEF and Gliding Courses were sufficient to differentiate the Air Training Corps from the ACF and the Naval Cadets, and were huge motivators. Yes, gliding training mostly lead only to the award of the BGA A&B Certificate, but the pride of a 16 year old to receive his “Wings” for having soloed, was a joy to all and a great motivator.
So much for reminiscing! I presume the MAA is the military equivalent of the CAA and somehow has subsumed the tried and tested ways of acceptance of aircraft in RAF service. If so, why does it not concentrate on purely military aircraft, and why does not the RAF and the ATC adhere to civilian rules and regulations for aircraft which may be included on the Civil Register. For Air Cadets, that means they could be trained on gliders maintained to BGA standards and solo at 14, and fly (perhaps even in a civilian aircraft piloted by a licensed civilian pilot) in aircraft maintained to EASA/LAA standards, and if lucky enough to gain a Flying Scholarship, solo at 16.
Contributors to this thread are rightly focussed on gliding in the ATC, but I think I am correct in saying that Air Cadets of today do not have the chance of a week’s Summer Camp at an RAF Station. Maybe Duncan Sandys was right but ahead of his time: the RAF of tomorrow do not need aircrew, only drone pilots?
PS What are VSOs? Are they as useful as VASIs?
VSO's v VASI's
In the case of the ACO, VASI's actually work as advertised; the VSO's have had a severe case of loosing the best youth aviation scheme ever; on their watch. You are quite correct 207592 the organisation ran better with fewer (air minded) staff.
VSO = Very Senior Officer. Or in the case of PTFN, one who thinks he is.
VASIs did indeed work well, but PAPIs were even better.
VASIs did indeed work well, but PAPIs were even better.
207592; was that your number? I was 210093, just a bit after you.
You missed out a tier of the ATC structure, Regional HQs headed by a Gp Capt and 'parenting' about 6 ATC Wings.
I can't remember the name of our Regional Commandant at Henlow, but he was a hell of a nice guy, ex GD pilot, as was our Wing Admin Officer, a Sqdn Ldr RAFRO ex Wg Cdr Rock Ape!! Although this last guy wasn't aircrew, he fully supported putting as much 'Air' in Air Training Corps as possible by helping with the admin side of 'officially' flying cadets in microlights from Halton, where our Wing HQ was situated.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Age: 61
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Contributors to this thread are rightly focussed on gliding in the ATC, but I think I am correct in saying that Air Cadets of today do not have the chance of a week’s Summer Camp at an RAF Station
I am off to Valley in August with about 20 cadets for Annual Camp.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank goodness for that ExAscteer. My Grandson's Squadron seems to offer plenty of Outward Bound type opportunities, and flying from Boscombe Down, but not Annual camp at an RAF Station.
I cannot remember Regions in my day. Acting Wing Commander was the highest rank attainable as VR(T) officer. Is the ACO a recognized promotion route for GD officers in this slimmed down Air Force?
Ah, I've met VSO's in civilian life! Nice acronym: very silly of me not to sus it!
I cannot remember Regions in my day. Acting Wing Commander was the highest rank attainable as VR(T) officer. Is the ACO a recognized promotion route for GD officers in this slimmed down Air Force?
Ah, I've met VSO's in civilian life! Nice acronym: very silly of me not to sus it!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is true, sadly, that increasing numbers of cadets versus decreasing numbers of stations mean cadets are less likely to go on camp. There are various other camps taking place however to mitigate this (including rather good aerospace ones) at places like Beckingham.
I think I am correct in saying that Air Cadets of today do not have the chance of a week’s Summer Camp at an RAF Station
increasing numbers of cadets
There are various other camps taking place however to mitigate this (including rather good aerospace ones) at places like Beckingham.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Hadley's Hope, LV426
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are still plenty of opportunities to go on camps to RAF stations.
A couple of our older lads have recently done flying scholarships and GSs - very encouraging. These lads are keen and want to take up flying either as a hobby or a career. However in my 8 months of involvement at the Sqn there have been no AEF opportunities and there hasn't been a peep from our "Local" VGS (170 miles distant, ironic as our closest unit was 10 miles away) or from Wing regarding opportunites to do Blue Wings on the PTT. As a result, most of our cadets, as per the thread title, remain firmly grounded.
A couple of our older lads have recently done flying scholarships and GSs - very encouraging. These lads are keen and want to take up flying either as a hobby or a career. However in my 8 months of involvement at the Sqn there have been no AEF opportunities and there hasn't been a peep from our "Local" VGS (170 miles distant, ironic as our closest unit was 10 miles away) or from Wing regarding opportunites to do Blue Wings on the PTT. As a result, most of our cadets, as per the thread title, remain firmly grounded.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is happening is that some cadets are joining civilian gliding clubs close to where they live.
At my club we have 5 young members who are each in one of two local squadrons.
Of these five, two are already solo and one has already transitioned to our SZD-51-1 Junior and is well on his way to Bronze. He is 16 years old. Four of the five are from the local school with which we have a scholarship programme for 6 students per annum, so they get to solo free of charge.
It has been suggested that I visit one of the squadrons to talk about civilian gliding and explain to the cadets and their parents what it would cost to go that route.
If parents are responsible for getting the cadets to and from VGS Centres, it might be cheaper for them to pay the local civvie club membership and launch costs. Many clubs run assisted schemes for young pilots.
It is all very sad that it should come to this after the fantastic history of Air Cadet Gliding. Many of my fellow older club-members and I are former Air Cadet Instructors mainly 616 Henlow). Our own gliding was with the Air Cadets so we have a strong bond with the current cadets who come to us.
At my club we have 5 young members who are each in one of two local squadrons.
Of these five, two are already solo and one has already transitioned to our SZD-51-1 Junior and is well on his way to Bronze. He is 16 years old. Four of the five are from the local school with which we have a scholarship programme for 6 students per annum, so they get to solo free of charge.
It has been suggested that I visit one of the squadrons to talk about civilian gliding and explain to the cadets and their parents what it would cost to go that route.
If parents are responsible for getting the cadets to and from VGS Centres, it might be cheaper for them to pay the local civvie club membership and launch costs. Many clubs run assisted schemes for young pilots.
It is all very sad that it should come to this after the fantastic history of Air Cadet Gliding. Many of my fellow older club-members and I are former Air Cadet Instructors mainly 616 Henlow). Our own gliding was with the Air Cadets so we have a strong bond with the current cadets who come to us.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hotel Gypsy
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm taking 38 cadets to Valley in August. A week before our Sqn is going to Snowdonia for 5 days adventure training. There are also two cadets on my Sqn who have civilian gliding wings, courtesy of the local gliding club. Yes, cadet gliding is a shambles and AEF isn't much better but let's try and keep the kids engaged.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm taking 38 cadets to Valley in August. A week before our Sqn is going to Snowdonia for 5 days adventure training. There are also two cadets on my Sqn who have civilian gliding wings, courtesy of the local gliding club. Yes, cadet gliding is a shambles and AEF isn't much better but let's try and keep the kids engaged.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ulster
Age: 64
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To get some NI cadets in the air I am taking 24 cadets to Leuchars for two days next week, at least they will have a chance of flying there unlike our usual shopping trips to Liverpool, sorry AEF trips to Woodvale . Over the next month around 100 will be going .So two days there then next weekend I am heading to Fairford with our advance party for RIAT followed later by our main party of around 20 cadets. Spending lots of time on ferry and coach.
I saw the outgoing note from EX-AOC 22 to all 22Gp stations who indicated that his biggest regret and failure was Air Cadet gliding. Good to see this admission and maybe it's time for the new AOC to take a fresh look at Air Cadet flying? 3 years and 2 months down the line with only small amounts of gliding and normal amounts of AEF then surely with 2018 around the corner it is ripe for a re-vamp and re-think?
Gentleman Aviator
I saw the outgoing note from EX-AOC 22 to all 22Gp stations who indicated that his biggest regret and failure was Air Cadet gliding.
Not 100% sure, but I think that not only is new AOC 22 an ex-cadet, but ISTR his Mrs was a CI at one time!
tucumseh (post #3619) :-
and given himself a good telling off? I very much doubt it. Having already been the Eminence Grise to the whitewash Haddon-Cave review, the words fireproof and Teflon come to mind...
Shameful. With hindsight, I wonder if the President of the Ulster ATC might have had a word with the MAA DG..........
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hotel Gypsy
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't know there was a "President of Ulster ATC". Call me a bluff old traditionalist, but I can't imagine residents of Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan wearing RAF uniforms. 