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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 13th May 2017, 18:57
  #3481 (permalink)  
 
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Nope the FLS Sprint is FUGLY as well...
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Old 13th May 2017, 21:02
  #3482 (permalink)  
 
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Some would say rugged

LJ Well at least the SAHI did not need a 'bolt on' extra to satisfy requirements.
It came complete with its strake and has plenty of ground clearance (unlike some) !!!! Another nice image though shows up the simple rugged UC very well.
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Old 13th May 2017, 22:23
  #3483 (permalink)  
 
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POBJOY, I think its the canopy that looks the most wrong, although the gangly u/c legs don't help. Trago Mills, the sponsor of the SAH, is much akin to Matalan down in the South West of England. So it really doesn't surprise me it looks kind of rubbish!

I've just been reading about Dave Unwin in the Bulldog 200 in his magazine and I was quite surprised it had such a low Vne. I've flown the Pup and the Bulldog; I must admit I'm not a fan of either. I've flown the Tutor and a Grob 115A - again, not a great fan. If I had to choose oit of all of the modern choices it would be the 260hp Firefly. However, if I had my choice of any RAF SEP trainer it would be the Chippy, as it flies beautifully and teaches you what the rudder pedals are for! As for modern SEPs then my favourite at the moment is the Blackshaoe Prime...



...now that IS a thing of beauty...

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Old 13th May 2017, 23:36
  #3484 (permalink)  
 
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The view from the back seat looks 'interesting.' Whilst I have taught on the Fouga with it's periscope there is no excuse nowadays, no matter how sleek the look.
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Old 14th May 2017, 05:04
  #3485 (permalink)  
 
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I would suggest side by side seating for cadet flying; I was spoilt as my first 'dual' flight was in a piston Provost and after that I never liked the Chipmunk as you couldn't see out the front.
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Old 14th May 2017, 05:14
  #3486 (permalink)  
 
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For AEF flying I'd have thought something like this would have been much more fun and less $'s

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Old 14th May 2017, 06:56
  #3487 (permalink)  
 
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Here is the view from the back with a wide angle lens



I'm not suggesting this as a serious contender for a successor Air Cadet aircraft, it's just what I would personally spend my 120k on if I had the money for a brand new SEP. For them, I would look at something like the Eurostar as used for Recruit Air Experience Flying - the aircraft even comes with its own parachute thus getting rid of the dreaded parachute video!



The unit price is a shade of over 70k each.

LJ
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Old 14th May 2017, 07:41
  #3488 (permalink)  
 
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Why do you need performance for AEF?
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Old 14th May 2017, 08:09
  #3489 (permalink)  
 
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AEF

LJ I think the SAHI could be described as a low wing version of a C150.
Quite an accolade really considering the zillions of drivers that machine has started off.


I always though AEF should have been in a four seater so more cadets got even more flying plus the chance to get started on map reading from the air.


Have to say that your 'Blackshape' looks the part, i would enjoy commuting in that.


Hang on its 'Italian' so not really your rugged all terrain trainer. (still like I said nice commuter)

Last edited by POBJOY; 14th May 2017 at 08:20.
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Old 14th May 2017, 14:16
  #3490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Why do you need performance for AEF?
And why do you need high performance glass ships for Air Cadet gliding? Sedburghs and Mk3s had adequate performance but had to be replaced due to their age; if someone produced a glider of similar performance nowadays it would be perfect for the task.
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Old 14th May 2017, 14:17
  #3491 (permalink)  
 
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Hi LJ, I flew the Blackshape a few years ago - and really liked it. The backseat is OK, but the front is superb! I flew the 100HP Rotax-powered version, but they now offer it with a 160HP O-320. I want one! Incidentally, the one I tested the Italian navy had flown off of their carrier!

Chevron is bang-on re glider type. If you're never going outside the airfield boundary (and the ATC don't) you don't need a good glide ratio, but a decently slow sink rate. That's why (although I've flown quite a few gliders) on some days I'll take the club K-8 over the Astir, as it will stay up on some days the Astir won't.

Had a nice bimble in the club T-61 last week. Kind of ironic that the ATC pensioned off their -61s years ago, and yet curiously although a great many remain airworthy, very few Vigilantes are. That says something about the BGA and LAA, but a lot more about the ATC and RAF.

Last edited by DaveUnwin; 14th May 2017 at 14:32. Reason: The usual - dodgy grammar!
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Old 14th May 2017, 14:18
  #3492 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
For AEF flying I'd have thought something like this would have been much more fun and less $'s

We did this at Halton, first in Cyclone AX3s then Chevvron 2-32Cs. The cadets loved it.
Even did about 20 microlight flying scholarships for 'Restricted' PPL(M)s (as they used to be called) using the Chevvrons
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Old 14th May 2017, 14:20
  #3493 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Leon Jabachjabicz View Post
I'm not suggesting this as a serious contender for a successor Air Cadet aircraft, it's just what I would personally spend my 120k on if I had the money for a brand new SEP. For them, I would look at something like the Eurostar as used for Recruit Air Experience Flying - the aircraft even comes with its own parachute thus getting rid of the dreaded parachute video!



The unit price is a shade of over 70k each.

LJ
I already suggested the Eurostar at #3472
Price 66293 actually but the RAF would probably insist on loads of 'mods' eg 'proper' instruments instead of a glass display.
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Old 14th May 2017, 16:30
  #3494 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
And why do you need high performance glass ships for Air Cadet gliding? Sedburghs and Mk3s had adequate performance but had to be replaced due to their age; if someone produced a glider of similar performance nowadays it would be perfect for the task.
Compared to most single-seat glass gliders the Vikings are not high performance with a best L/D of about 30:1 compared to about 40:1 for lots of 15m unflapped gliders. Additionally the single-seaters mostly perform slightly better at higher speeds which helps when trying to fly upwind, and are more slippery e.g. pick up speed more readily if the nose is lowered.
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Old 14th May 2017, 16:51
  #3495 (permalink)  
 
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But you don't need that for 'ordinary' Air Cadet gliding. Cross country flying is/was reserved for those cadets showing the greatest aptitude as were single seat gliders.
Gliding 'proficiency' or 'Basic Gliding Training' as it was later called meant getting as many cadets as possible solo and hence enabling them to wear their gliding wings for which the L/D of about 20:1 and 40 - 45 kt speed range was perfectly adequate.
For most cadets, that 'first solo' (3 solo circuits in my day) was the end of their gliding training.

Last edited by chevvron; 14th May 2017 at 17:14.
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Old 14th May 2017, 16:59
  #3496 (permalink)  
 
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Re the FLS Sprint

Reminds me of the old adage

If it's weird looking it must be French

If It's ugly it must be Russian

If it's ugly and weird it must be British

On a more serious note I feel for a whole generation of Air Cadets who will have joined and served until aging out without ever having the opportunity to fly, not fly in I mean actually fly, an aircraft.

Is there ever going to be any "Air" in the Air Cadets ?
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Old 14th May 2017, 17:16
  #3497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever View Post
Re the FLS Sprint

Reminds me of the old adage

If it's weird looking it must be French

If It's ugly it must be Russian

If it's ugly and weird it must be British

On a more serious note I feel for a whole generation of Air Cadets who will have joined and served until aging out without ever having the opportunity to fly, not fly in I mean actually fly, an aircraft.

Is there ever going to be any "Air" in the Air Cadets ?
The SAH-1/FLS Sprint was designed as a possible Chipmunk replacement for the RAF. The big bulging canopy was to accomodate the wearing of bonedomes.
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Old 14th May 2017, 17:34
  #3498 (permalink)  
 
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Crikey you could wear a Guardsman's Bearskin under that canopy!!
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Old 14th May 2017, 17:35
  #3499 (permalink)  
 
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First solo end of their gliding training !!

Chev That may be true; but for THOUSANDS it was the start of a life in aviation that repaid its costs many fold; plus a great start in 'self development'
I somehow do not see sitting in a plastic bath looking at a laptop will push a lot of buttons.
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Old 14th May 2017, 17:38
  #3500 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
But you don't need that for 'ordinary' Air Cadet gliding. Cross country flying is/was reserved for those cadets showing the greatest aptitude as were single seat gliders.
Gliding 'proficiency' or 'Basic Gliding Training' as it was later called meant getting as many cadets as possible solo and hence enabling them to wear their gliding wings for which the L/D of about 20:1 and 40 - 45 kt speed range was perfectly adequate.
For most cadets, that 'first solo' (3 solo circuits in my day) was the end of their gliding training.
If you learn in something as different to a fairly bog standard early solo glass glider, the transition to one (should you be lucky enough to do it) is bigger. I find it sad that those 3 solo circuits were the end of glider training for most cadets - it barely scratches the surface of gliding in so many ways.
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