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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 24th Mar 2016, 00:55
  #2021 (permalink)  
 
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OK

I'm now wearing the biggest tin hat stores could provide.

Having read the posts on this thread (and agreeing with 99% of them), has it never occurred to the posters that the UK cannot afford a 'real' Royal Air Force any more.

Therefore, how can the UK afford an Air Cadet Organisation?

Where is MoD (taxpayer) money best spent? Surely the Front Line.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 07:14
  #2022 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, but the idea is more cadets = less antisocial behaviour = save money on police/social services. And cadets are better motivated at school, too.

I'm not entirely convinced it's cause and effect ('good' kids join cadet organisations) but there is a logic.

But - one suspects non-flying cadets are cheaper and would still achieve the aim.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 09:47
  #2023 (permalink)  
 
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TaxyDual

Funding for the ATC (Cadet forces generally) is pretty small - probably lost in the 'roundings' of the Accountants frankly compared to the overall defence budget.

Cost savings against 'non-vandalism' and associated 'kids hanging on street corners' are supposedly huge. So much so that not so long ago, the Home Office was considering funding the Cadet Forces when MoD whinged about budget cuts................

I think the term was that Cadets were not just military but part of the 'Fabric Of Society'..................(Blah, Blah, Blah) - maybe Dave Cameron should be advised that a big bit of his 'Big Society' just got chopped off.............I'm sure he'd care and get involved <<Yeah, right>>

Arc

Last edited by Arclite01; 24th Mar 2016 at 09:54. Reason: spelling
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 10:37
  #2024 (permalink)  
 
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OK

I'm now wearing the biggest tin hat stores could provide.

Having read the posts on this thread (and agreeing with 99% of them), has it never occurred to the posters that the UK cannot afford a 'real' Royal Air Force any more.

Therefore, how can the UK afford an Air Cadet Organisation?

Where is MoD (taxpayer) money best spent? Surely the Front Line.

Absolutely spot on Taxydual - but the trouble is these cuts have been happening under the pretext of a 'safety pause',I think many people would have more respect for the Brass if they had been upfront about the real agendas.


rgds LR
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 10:47
  #2025 (permalink)  
 
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Getting rid of CGI's is what one would expect when the boss has no time for volunteers - presumably he hates civvy volunteers even more than uniformed volunteers !
Is this also the thin end of the wedge and serve as an early warning for CI's on ATC Squadrons ?
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 11:05
  #2026 (permalink)  
 
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has it never occurred to the posters that the UK cannot afford a 'real' Royal Air Force any more
A few years ago my opinion was that avoiding the worst examples of waste, much of it entirely conscious, would generate more money than the MoD could reasonably spend. But the savagery of the cuts in recent years, coupled with (e.g.) the rundown of irreplaceable corporate knowledge, has changed my view a little, as the balance has shifted. That said, MoD still pours astronomical sums down the drain every day.

Last week we saw unseemly arguments in Parliament over the Budget, and the "need" to find 4.3Bn savings from the welfare pot. Coincidentally, more or less the sum wasted on Nimrod MRA4. An idea emerges....
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 11:15
  #2027 (permalink)  
 
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Don't worry about the RAF, the experiment finishes in two years next Friday
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 14:54
  #2028 (permalink)  
 
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MOD Wethersfield (Home of 614 VGS) to Close

Defence Estate Rationalisation Written Statement HCWS659, 24 March 2016:

MOD Wethersfield, home of 614 VGS, due to transfer to Homes and Communities Agency by 2020. Future location for 614 VGS yet to be identified.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 15:16
  #2029 (permalink)  
 
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Money well spent

The 'Civilian' element of the ACO has always been its 'jewel' in that it provided a cadre of capable adult staff at very little cost to the tax payer.
Whether in the Cadet Squadrons or the Gliding operations the civilian element was nigh on cost free.
As for the provision of a Cadet service at all, this has be balanced against the unseen advantages of providing an organisation that allows youngsters to engage in self developing activities with just enough discipline to keep it safe yet not stifle the normal enthusiasm for adventure. What the ACO 'had' in its Gliding set up was an organisation that provided a unique extra level of self development that was available to anyone who wished to participate without a financial limitation.
Where the ATC has gone astray is in its 'paid for' back up providers who have failed to provide a service yet the money has been spent.
There is also a big question mark hanging over the capability level of those that should have been overseeing this and then dealing with the problem that ensued. The Cadets that passed through the system took with them skills and a level of self development that equipped them for adult life and repaid that earlier investment many times over.
At the end of the day the civilian element of the ACO can holds its head up high; it never failed the Cadets and has a proud tradition of capability and service.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 18:28
  #2030 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear, there were rumblings years ago about this. Bang goes East Anglia I guess, not too many cadets in that area luckily...

MOD Wethersfield (Home of 614 VGS) to Close
Defence Estate Rationalisation Written Statement HCWS659, 24 March 2016:

MOD Wethersfield, home of 614 VGS, due to transfer to Homes and Communities Agency by 2020. Future location for 614 VGS yet to be identified.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 18:45
  #2031 (permalink)  
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Bang goes East Anglia I guess, not too many cadets in that area luckily...
Errr...weren't they supposed to cover London in the future plans....
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 19:26
  #2032 (permalink)  
 
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Homes and communities agency

Ok so what does this agency need all the 'Airfield' bit for.
There are plenty of useful buildings on the north side that can easily accommodate a glider operation,and plenty of space for 'launching'.
Does anyone ever look how civvy clubs manage on quite 'tiny' sites.
Does anyone at the top of the 'system' have any idea how 'operations' operate in the real world.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 19:27
  #2033 (permalink)  
 
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From the same Written statement - also included is Clive Barracks, Tern Hill... Isn't that another VGS site or is it purely the army barracks?
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 19:38
  #2034 (permalink)  
 
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Is it me or is there something going on that I do not understand. When I was a boy the country was struggling after the war yet we ran a large military a large police force with a policeman on every corner, a large NHS that never seemed to have any of the current problems and a civil service that was admired worldwide. Nowadays the country is richer than it has ever been and nothing seems to be affordable; the treasury cuts, sells and saves at every opportunity and the Air Cadets seems to be caught up in the mindset that savings need to be made at every opportunity.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 20:37
  #2035 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Ok so what does this agency need all the 'Airfield' bit for.
There are plenty of useful buildings on the north side that can easily accommodate a glider operation,and plenty of space for 'launching'.
Does anyone ever look how civvy clubs manage on quite 'tiny' sites.
Does anyone at the top of the 'system' have any idea how 'operations' operate in the real world.
Probably for the 4850 homes they are to build on it
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 20:48
  #2036 (permalink)  
 
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Wrt the NHS, medicine is far far more sophisticated and therefore expensive than 70 years ago. Expectations have increased as well, and we live longer.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 23:12
  #2037 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tmmorris View Post
Ah, but the idea is more cadets = less antisocial behaviour = save money on police/social services. And cadets are better motivated at school, too.

I'm not entirely convinced it's cause and effect ('good' kids join cadet organisations) but there is a logic.

But - one suspects non-flying cadets are cheaper and would still achieve the aim.
Ah TMM, I believe your background and experience is with the CCF which is prevalent in upper education and public schools, so perhaps you haven't seen the whole range of student (dis)engagement.

We had an amazing relationship with our nearest school - we used their facilities and our staff supported their DEA activities very regularly. Some of their staff visited our Sqn during routine activities and were amazed to bump into one of their "problem pupils", standing to attention and to one side to allow them down a corridor. They were really surprised as this was someone they had been in despair of in school.

The impact of open cadet units on the general teenage population should not be underestimated.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 23:22
  #2038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Ok so what does this agency need all the 'Airfield' bit for.
There are plenty of useful buildings on the north side that can easily accommodate a glider operation,and plenty of space for 'launching'.
Does anyone ever look how civvy clubs manage on quite 'tiny' sites.
Does anyone at the top of the 'system' have any idea how 'operations' operate in the real world.
With respect to tiny sites, the area that 617 used at Manston was considered very small and was out of the way of the main runway, so history suggests it doesn't need to be a logical and thought out decision.
617 VGS left Manston donkeys' years ago and has been homeless since, the section of airfield they used is still there and there is still a military presence with the Fire School maintained - therefore MT and domestic facilities could be there too. In terms of basic resources, there is no obvious reason why they didn't maintain 617 there. If it hadn't been located on Thanet, it would have made a great hub for ACO activities but there again I did my GS there so I'm probably a bit biased.
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Old 24th Mar 2016, 23:31
  #2039 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bspatz View Post
Is it me or is there something going on that I do not understand. When I was a boy the country was struggling after the war yet we ran a large military a large police force with a policeman on every corner, a large NHS that never seemed to have any of the current problems and a civil service that was admired worldwide. Nowadays the country is richer than it has ever been and nothing seems to be affordable; the treasury cuts, sells and saves at every opportunity and the Air Cadets seems to be caught up in the mindset that savings need to be made at every opportunity.
In those days things were a lot cheaper - we certainly weren't paying millions per Lightning let alone for our other cold war inventory assets. The other thing we didn't have was a 20% income tax rate. Most people have been quite happy to receive a tax cut in most budgets over the last decade or so, but few realise that reduced contributions mean less in the pot to pay for public services such as the NHS, the Police and the Forces.
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Old 25th Mar 2016, 00:37
  #2040 (permalink)  
 
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Weathersfield !!

Ok 4850 homes = lots of youngsters to feed a 'facility'.
Ideal to have an 'Adventure' facility on part of the site to keep those youngsters active in something that will serve them for future life.
I suspect the Homes and Com agency would be pleased to support that,and remember the Prime Minister was trying to encourage 'school' cadet squadrons.
Is that too much out of the box to consider.
Why is it that so many service establishments and the housing fall into disrepair rather than get recycled into ready made work and live places.
RAF Kenley has a civilian club that operates during the week on a fraction of the whole airfield,which itself is only small compared with many sites.
As for 'Army' (former airfield sites) well they have an Air Corps so what is the problem with a joint venture Cadet corps operating from them,or is it a 'political' impasse with the services,that needs a bit of head knocking.
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