Fleet Air Arm - Direct Entry Aircrew

[althenick]

See Linky

Why change this? Understandable in times of war but surely the point of Naval Aircrew is that they are "Ship-Freindly" would this not affect the Air component integrating with the rest of the ship

Any Ideas?

[Unchecked]

Because after they realised they could not safely operate the green merlin with a single crewman and wrongly assumed that the RAF's crewmen would transfer across to them to fill the gaps, it became clear that they had to do something.
They should probably hope that their candidates don't spot that the RAF offer the same role though, only with the kudos of 3 stripes on the shoulder and double the wages.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Mmmm no mention of Flying Pay either, methinks something is rotten in the state of Denmark

[N2erk]

Interesting that the linked recruiting promo material mentioned RN and RM Commando service. Per the ongoing thread about beret colour and service, wonder if aircrewpersons !! going RM would have to do the full training to get the coveted, well deserved beret.?
The related trade of "Aircraft Controller" looked appealing!

[PTC REMF]

From 2013-14 pay scales

RN leading hand
£ 27868 Lvl 1

RAF NCA crewman Sgt
£ 33063 lvl1
£ 2606 initial rate of flying pay
£ 35669 total

So not exactly double. Interesting that it talks about leadership training at RAF Shawbury, not sure what that will entail. Have they also circumvented HMS Raleigh? I always thought that the RN crewmen got some form of flying pay but nothing was mentioned on the careers website?

It's still money for old rope at the end of the day.

[Libertine Winno]

The age limit for dark blue is also 26, as it is for pilot/observer aircrew, whereas the same role in light blue (WSOp) is up to 32.

I'd also be interested to hear what 'leadership training' is done at Shawbury, as WSOps do their leadership training at Cranwell (Sgt's course) not Shawbury...?

[Unchecked]

But they're not leading hands, are they?

[PTC REMF]

After training the RN crewmen get promoted from able rate to leading hand, according to the RN website.

[shetlander]

Great opportunity for the young un’s!

[airborne_artist]

So a Leading Hand in the Dark Blue equates with a Sergeant in the Light Blue.

Nothing new then

[Union Jack]

So a Leading Hand in the Dark Blue equates with a Sergeant in the Light Blue.

Nothing new then

No disagreement there, although it might be a bit of a worry when the bean counters click and decide that perhaps WSOps need only be Corporals!

Jack

[gr4techie]

No disagreement there, although it might be a bit of a worry when the bean counters click and decide that perhaps WSOps need only be Corporals!

Army Air Corps only need to be Corporals to be a helicopter pilot.


(Unless they then get promoted after training???)

[MaroonMan4]

All very interesting and has an air of panic in the RN as it realises that it might not be able to fully man it's "Commando" Merlins.

The question has to be asked though is this a long term introduction of a policy decided at the highest levels, or a last minute attempt to save the Merlin transition - amongst other challenges (I wonder where the hangar thread has gone ).

The next question is has this change in policy been introduced as a result of exodus of Fisheads and Royal Marines already trained on the Merlin HC3/3a or is it just a routine increase in requirement. Regardless again it smacks as though someone somewhere couldn't stop an outflow of trained personnel, or someone somewhere didn't offset the increased requirement in Commando crewman until it was too late?

We can certainly all squabble in the playground about RN Leading Hands equating to RAF aircrew, but we all have sadly witnessed that with an SDSR around the corner someone somewhere will make a policy decision that, for example, either forces the RN to take RAF NCA as it will be cheaper than training new recruits, or accepting the loss in any perceived "Commando" ethos/experience by flooding the back of green Merlins with young enthusiastic RN crewman that are very inexperienced in the maritime environment (if the crewman can do this, why can't the pilots - in which case why not have mixed RAF/RN crews?).

Being totally transparent the other way to look at it is does the green Merlin really need 2 crewman all of the time? Does the Puma, Sea King or other SH of comparable size have 2, and what are their roles? For example, and when required, could one crewman be supported by an air aware/in house Merlin trained 'cheaper' alternative (e.g. when doing a big assault or when all door guns need to be manned etc?). Could one crewman be traditionally trained for the usual crewman roles (and I have been told that the RN think their crewman are trained to a higher standard with map reading/nav, emergency handling being part of their job specs?). The other lesser trained crewman trained to operate the door guns and help on/off load of troops and freight?

[TheWizard]

One word. Ramp.

[kintyred]

The Mighty, Mighty Wokka can operate with one crewman in a number of roles, although admittedly it does restrict the number of self loading freight that can be carried....to something north of what the Merlin is capable of. Even the hugely restrictive JHC regs wouldn't prevent a Chinny lifting a Merlin as an USL with only one crewman!
And of course the Chinook also has a ramp, although you can't use it for ski practice!

[Basil]

RN Leading Hands equating to RAF aircrew

Adding nothing to the discussion but light relief:
I was a REME Craftsman and an RAF Flight Lieutenant.
When I'm feeling charitable I sometimes tell Pongos about that to help them feel good about themselves

[airborne_artist]

Basil - I was very nearly commissioned into the Dark Blue, but only made Corporal in the part-time branch of the hooligans