Silly Assed Beer Commercial....Not!
There is a system, but maybe it is either underfunded, under staffed, or under resourced for what is probably needed. This war isn't the first to uncover that flaw in the system.
The medical care provided to the active armed forces was torpedoed by the Clinton era budget cuts, to be replaced by Tricare, aka "try to find care" by some both in and out of the system/service.
They need a military that doesn't think that repeated year-long deployments are a good idea. Amongst other things.
I don't disagree with the serious problem of wear and tear on people who get repeat one year tours, Iraq and Afgh. That will wear most people out, and put strains on families that often cause breakage.
I don't disagree that the Guard and Reserve were frequently abused by that demand on manpower, a demand that went on year after year. (And seems to be still going on in Afgh).
Would you prefer a return to the draft? That wasn't and isn't all roses and wine either.
Thread Starter
I whole heartedly endorse returning to the Draft....both Men and Women so that every Mother's Son and Daughter can wind up on the Battlefield and not just the Volunteers.
Perhaps when it is "their" Child that is going to be sent off to War without volunteering....Mom's and Dad's will pay far more attention to "Why" we must send our kid's off to risk death, maiming, and wounding.
The Feminists have insisted "Muffy" must have the choice to be whatever she wishes to be....then by Golly....let's give them the Full Monty on this.
Draft their cute butts, train them to be Infantry, give them a Rifle and send them off to fight.
Perhaps we might just have more "Peace" and far less "War".
Perhaps when it is "their" Child that is going to be sent off to War without volunteering....Mom's and Dad's will pay far more attention to "Why" we must send our kid's off to risk death, maiming, and wounding.
The Feminists have insisted "Muffy" must have the choice to be whatever she wishes to be....then by Golly....let's give them the Full Monty on this.
Draft their cute butts, train them to be Infantry, give them a Rifle and send them off to fight.
Perhaps we might just have more "Peace" and far less "War".
Here's what I think of the Bud commercial:
Cnuts jumping on a patriotic bandwagon to sell * beer. Shameful, but been done many times before in the UK.
Now proper Bud from Europe - that's different.
* Beer which I, personally, prefer not to drink. I was astonished, many years ago, to discover that the Yanks CAN make good beer when they do it at a local level
I do believe that I have not denigrated any commercial product nor impugned the character of any representative of their boards.
Cnuts jumping on a patriotic bandwagon to sell * beer. Shameful, but been done many times before in the UK.
Now proper Bud from Europe - that's different.
* Beer which I, personally, prefer not to drink. I was astonished, many years ago, to discover that the Yanks CAN make good beer when they do it at a local level
I do believe that I have not denigrated any commercial product nor impugned the character of any representative of their boards.
and again:
SASless, Brit and don't usually do this sort of stuff but your post #16 hit the spot.
Always thought the Viet guys were badly treated.
Took us 67 years to drop the PC crap and build a bomber command memorial which was unveiled in 2012. (Our America Air Museum Memorial, which was opened 15 years earlier, in 1997, commemorated, particularly, The Eighth Air Force)
p.s. Just in case any Guardianistas are reading; we are not rejoicing, we are not glorifying, we are remembering just as should you.
SASless, Brit and don't usually do this sort of stuff but your post #16 hit the spot.
Always thought the Viet guys were badly treated.
Took us 67 years to drop the PC crap and build a bomber command memorial which was unveiled in 2012. (Our America Air Museum Memorial, which was opened 15 years earlier, in 1997, commemorated, particularly, The Eighth Air Force)
p.s. Just in case any Guardianistas are reading; we are not rejoicing, we are not glorifying, we are remembering just as should you.
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Believe it or not, that is what the VA was set up to be.
The military provides the troops when the political arm of our government wants troops to go and do X. It has ever been thus. To pretend that the Army or Navy or Marines do this in a vacuum is to utterly misunderstand how the System works.
As for SASless having issues with civilians and women - who knew?
Conscription is terrible for so many reasons.
Thread Starter
I have no issues with Civilians and Women.
I do have issues with a Nation that has fought two Wars at one time...each lasting over Ten Years and we never mobilized the Country to fight them.
We as a Nation happily involved less than 3% of the Population in the Blood Letting and the rest of us went about Life as if nothing more important than going shopping at the Mall existed.
If we had Conscription and a larger Military then our Troops would not have had to make so many deployments, been away from Home and Family so many times and for as long as they have.
Feminists have pushed for full inclusion of Women into every facet of our Military.
Except for the risk of being compelled to serve rather than Volunteering that is.
I support full equality for Women....and drafting them into the Military and granting them the highest honor a Citizen can receive.....serving one's Country in War....in direct combat with an armed enemy. They demand "equality"....I say grant them exactly that.
Since we have not mobilized for War since the end of World War II, the last War we decisively won.....perhaps we should take heed of the costs of not mobilizing the Nation when we go to War.....and the absolute fallacy of fighting "limited" Wars.
As I have said....when the risk is evenly shared....perhaps there shall be far more interest in why Politicians wish to send all of our Kids off to War and not just those who volunteer to go.
Perhaps the War being offered would be one that demands full mobilization of the Nation and a commitment by each of us to make sacrifices to see it carried out.
If we each had to sacrifice....I know for a fact we would have far fewer Wars....and that is the issue.....we have had too much "War" and too little Peace.
I do have issues with a Nation that has fought two Wars at one time...each lasting over Ten Years and we never mobilized the Country to fight them.
We as a Nation happily involved less than 3% of the Population in the Blood Letting and the rest of us went about Life as if nothing more important than going shopping at the Mall existed.
If we had Conscription and a larger Military then our Troops would not have had to make so many deployments, been away from Home and Family so many times and for as long as they have.
Feminists have pushed for full inclusion of Women into every facet of our Military.
Except for the risk of being compelled to serve rather than Volunteering that is.
I support full equality for Women....and drafting them into the Military and granting them the highest honor a Citizen can receive.....serving one's Country in War....in direct combat with an armed enemy. They demand "equality"....I say grant them exactly that.
Since we have not mobilized for War since the end of World War II, the last War we decisively won.....perhaps we should take heed of the costs of not mobilizing the Nation when we go to War.....and the absolute fallacy of fighting "limited" Wars.
As I have said....when the risk is evenly shared....perhaps there shall be far more interest in why Politicians wish to send all of our Kids off to War and not just those who volunteer to go.
Perhaps the War being offered would be one that demands full mobilization of the Nation and a commitment by each of us to make sacrifices to see it carried out.
If we each had to sacrifice....I know for a fact we would have far fewer Wars....and that is the issue.....we have had too much "War" and too little Peace.
Hinecap, I see your point. Thanks for clearing that up.
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SASless - you speak as a man with perfect 20/20 rear view vision. Had anyone at the time suggested something like Vietnam required the USA to actually go on to a war footing they would have, quite rightly, been told they were mad. A small spot of bother 'over there' did not require a nation of that size to go to war. It would have resulted in the USA being broke or close to it.
Conscription would just mean more people going somewhere to do a lesser job. having had a few of the last conscripts in the Italian Army work for me, I have seen the complete drain on resources they are. You are taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
If you want all out war to prove your point that war is bad, then you have a strange way of teaching a lesson. Your solution sounds a little more like Communism than a liberal free market economy.
Conscription would just mean more people going somewhere to do a lesser job. having had a few of the last conscripts in the Italian Army work for me, I have seen the complete drain on resources they are. You are taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
If you want all out war to prove your point that war is bad, then you have a strange way of teaching a lesson. Your solution sounds a little more like Communism than a liberal free market economy.
Thread Starter
Perhaps reading comprehension is not part of your education.
Certainly your knowledge of the decision making that has caused us the results we derived from those decisions is most lacking.
Ever read a serious review or read individual accounts by those making those decisions?
It is exactly because we did not mobilize during that "small bit of bother" as you call it.....that caused us to lose. Vietnam as Iraq and Afghanistan after it....dragged out way too long due to the lack of proper leadership and piss poor decision making by our National Leadership.
Those that fight the Wars pay in lives, limbs, and blood for such thinking as you embrace.
You might also recall....Hind Sight is far more accurate than fore sight....and we should learn from our mistakes made in the past.
Yet....we have not.
I suppose you will be telling us about success in Borneo and Malaysia while comparing that to Vietnam.....as far too many of you do.
Certainly your knowledge of the decision making that has caused us the results we derived from those decisions is most lacking.
Ever read a serious review or read individual accounts by those making those decisions?
It is exactly because we did not mobilize during that "small bit of bother" as you call it.....that caused us to lose. Vietnam as Iraq and Afghanistan after it....dragged out way too long due to the lack of proper leadership and piss poor decision making by our National Leadership.
Those that fight the Wars pay in lives, limbs, and blood for such thinking as you embrace.
You might also recall....Hind Sight is far more accurate than fore sight....and we should learn from our mistakes made in the past.
Yet....we have not.
I suppose you will be telling us about success in Borneo and Malaysia while comparing that to Vietnam.....as far too many of you do.
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At what point, between say Jan 1957 and 1975 would you have declared war? I don't really see how a nation that was supporting another nation at war thousands of miles away would have seen the need for a total war footing and the damage that would do to a burgeoning economy.
Over 20 years in Vietnam, less American soldiers died than in the 2 years the USA took part in World War I. All deaths are sad losses and there are hundreds of different ways a war in SE Asia could have been fought, but a total war effort?
Shout me down for a lack of understanding, but I recommend you might want to understand the economic impact of a nation going to a total war footing if you think that was the answer to the conflicts you mentioned.
Over 20 years in Vietnam, less American soldiers died than in the 2 years the USA took part in World War I. All deaths are sad losses and there are hundreds of different ways a war in SE Asia could have been fought, but a total war effort?
Shout me down for a lack of understanding, but I recommend you might want to understand the economic impact of a nation going to a total war footing if you think that was the answer to the conflicts you mentioned.
Last edited by Mr C Hinecap; 4th Feb 2014 at 23:51.
Thread Starter
H,
I repeat my comment about your lack of reading comprehension.....as you simply cannot grasp what I have said in repeated posts.
It is I who is against War....especially half assed efforts at fighting them as we have since WWII.
I see it in old fashioned terms....biblical terms....the way Wars used to be fought.
When a Nation opened up a can of Whoop Ass it was an all or nothing thing. Either you won and wiped out your foe....or you lost and you got wiped out by your foe.
If we are not prepared to fight in such a manner...we should not engage in War at at all.
We would see far less of it should we do that.
You think 12 Years of War in Afghanistan has not been expensive? You must be dreaming.
You think Ten Years of War in Iraq was cheap?
It is not just Lives we must measure these endless Wars by....but Economic, Political, and Social costs too.
I believe the only War you know is that of words otherwise you would be singing a far different tune. The view of things up front is much different than from the Rear with the Gear I guess.
I repeat my comment about your lack of reading comprehension.....as you simply cannot grasp what I have said in repeated posts.
It is I who is against War....especially half assed efforts at fighting them as we have since WWII.
I see it in old fashioned terms....biblical terms....the way Wars used to be fought.
When a Nation opened up a can of Whoop Ass it was an all or nothing thing. Either you won and wiped out your foe....or you lost and you got wiped out by your foe.
If we are not prepared to fight in such a manner...we should not engage in War at at all.
We would see far less of it should we do that.
You think 12 Years of War in Afghanistan has not been expensive? You must be dreaming.
You think Ten Years of War in Iraq was cheap?
It is not just Lives we must measure these endless Wars by....but Economic, Political, and Social costs too.
I believe the only War you know is that of words otherwise you would be singing a far different tune. The view of things up front is much different than from the Rear with the Gear I guess.
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What a personal and vitriolic attack. Lots of assumptions as well. How unpleasant. As for biblical war. Yes, the good old days eh? 
Anyway - I found this to be a very good piece about this advert in particular and the way the military is used and abused in advertising as a whole:
» The Great Budweiser Lie
Anyway - I found this to be a very good piece about this advert in particular and the way the military is used and abused in advertising as a whole:
» The Great Budweiser Lie
Thread Starter
You do need to find a different method of expressing your views Hiney.....you attack the Lieutenant....despite his being "Ordered" to participate by his Commander.....exactly the same as one of the young Royals is headed to PR duties....on orders from his Superiors. I don't see you making any accusations of questionable conduct of that young lad.
That the young Officer expresses "conservative" views must have really tied your knickers in a knot....or else you would not have dug so deep to find such a silly assed article to throw out here.
Now .....you prove yourself to unworthy of debate as you only seek to insult, denigrate, and fuss.....with no valid logical basis to your comments.
Thus....off to the Peanut Gallery with you.
I simply refuse to read another one of your posts.
That the young Officer expresses "conservative" views must have really tied your knickers in a knot....or else you would not have dug so deep to find such a silly assed article to throw out here.
Now .....you prove yourself to unworthy of debate as you only seek to insult, denigrate, and fuss.....with no valid logical basis to your comments.
Thus....off to the Peanut Gallery with you.
I simply refuse to read another one of your posts.
Off to Ireland in 1975, went to the local German pub for a farewell beer and they kindly ofered to hide us!!!!! A nice offer however this was what the Queen paid us for and away we went.
Four months later at the end of tour we returned to the same pub. The locals bought us beer all night. A great experience and one I still don't really understand.
The pub in question the Lohne Eck is no longer there having being converted to a house but that night will always stick in my memory (what I can remember of it!!!).
Four months later at the end of tour we returned to the same pub. The locals bought us beer all night. A great experience and one I still don't really understand.
The pub in question the Lohne Eck is no longer there having being converted to a house but that night will always stick in my memory (what I can remember of it!!!).
SASless:
Hinecap's link is actually pretty good reading.
The blog post takes the piss out of the Army PR department as much as anything else, and paints a very accurate picture of what advertising is intended to do. There are a variety of comments on that blog that are very worthwhile reading. (Some others, not so much).
Lt Nadd is in an aviation MOS, I think, so I would expect most of us to be onside with him instinctively. I think you're being overly rough on Mr Hinecap.
This sentiment from the blog isn't all wrong, SASless:
ericferrett: that's a neat story. Sorry to hear that the pub is no longer there: looks like it attracted a good crowd!
Hinecap's link is actually pretty good reading.
The blog post takes the piss out of the Army PR department as much as anything else, and paints a very accurate picture of what advertising is intended to do. There are a variety of comments on that blog that are very worthwhile reading. (Some others, not so much).
Lt Nadd is in an aviation MOS, I think, so I would expect most of us to be onside with him instinctively. I think you're being overly rough on Mr Hinecap.
This sentiment from the blog isn't all wrong, SASless:
We are your warfighters. We are your sons and daughters. We are your fathers and mothers and spouses. We are your sword and protector. We are not aimless urchins. We are not broken objects to be pitied at a safe distance. And we are not your goddamn beer salesmen.
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Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.
Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.
Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
