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Altimeter settings when in Combat?

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Altimeter settings when in Combat?

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Old 12th Jan 2014, 23:34
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Altimeter settings when in Combat?

Just curious really. How do combat pilots set their altimeter when in combat? I'm assuming they don't always constantly change to and fro between QNH and STD when diving in on targets and climbing away from an engagement? Or do they?
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Old 12th Jan 2014, 23:57
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Why Dear Boy....would they not want to use QFE so they would know how high above the target they are when they drop their bombs?

They sure don't want to get below about 15,000 feet or anything....as there's folks down there that would shoot at them if they did!
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 00:03
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AWACS or ASACS normally gives out a mission QNH of some sort. Most jets have a RADALT and/or GPWS with a terrain database.

I hope that answers your question?

LJ
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 07:59
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Biggest altimeter in the world! The ground!
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 09:13
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Playing "hard floor", huh Newt?
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 09:20
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GPWS with a terrain database.

Where do the terrain databases come from?

Clearly accurate topographic data is available in the UK training areas - but there are lots of places around the world which have not been ground-surveyed accurately - e.g. where does the Afghan data come from? I would guestimate satellite imagery can only produce topographical maps to about 20m vertical accuracy - is that good enough?
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 09:34
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Barometric is no more accurate in regional QNH, Radalt can be confused by snow and trees/brush. Even the Mk1 eyeball can be fooled flying into rising ground. I knew a Jag pilot who just about did something in his flying suit when flying at what he thought was about 100ft over a snow covered pine planation. Something clicked and he realised he was at about 10-20ft over newly planted saplings....
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 10:27
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1013 was always my preferred option - especially during our overland sorties!!
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 11:51
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The only way ORAC old chap! 1013 very useful for low level abort!
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 11:57
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ORAC......were Jag Pilots as slow as the aircraft?
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 12:07
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Altimeter settings when in Combat?

Sasless.
You are misinformed old chap. The Jag didn't have too many problems with speed once you got her up and running. Turning on the other hand...
As for the mental agility of the pilots? Well that's not for me to say.
BV
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 12:11
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Re ORAC's post. One of my ex students was killed flying a Harrier in Norway many years ago. He'd had been accustomed to the size of the trees in Scotland but the smaller Norwegian ones caught him out.
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 12:30
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Thanks chaps. So generally they use a single setting throughout a mission?
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 13:17
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errr - just to clarify - my (flippant) remark re SPS (1013) was due to the fact that using that meant we were (usually well) above transition alt and therefore nice and safe! Unlike the steely-eyed fighter/bomber types who would use whatever appropriate while they were working below us, we multi-types were happiest up above all threat ceilings (hopefully...)! Maybe you could re-phrase the question to indicate exactly which type of aircraft and what type of combat you meant? The answers will be different depending on the type and role. Thought I'd better explain in case there is a serious reason for the query (in which case, why ask on here ?)
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 15:16
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Maybe you could re-phrase the question to indicate exactly which type of aircraft and what type of combat you meant? The answers will be different depending on the type and role. Thought I'd better explain in case there is a serious reason for the query (in which case, why ask on here ?)
Nothing serious in the query just a curiosity. Take for example an A10 providing CAS. Would it set the QNH before takeoff and keep that set until landing? Or would they use STD while above the TA en-route to the combat area and then switch to QNH?
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 16:51
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"Hard deck my arse...we nailed that sucker"
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 18:11
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Trim Stab

I would have thought your TA time would have told you about DTED? DTED - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are other formats available military applications. The exact fidelity of the terrain sample is obviously classified.

LJ
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 18:18
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Glamdring

Usually there would be a force QNH that you set as you go 'sausage side' and that would allow friendlies to try and stop bumping into each other (part of the battle!). Outside of the fighting area then we go into the peacetime zone and its procedures - SPS above TA, regional QNH and QNH/QFE at the air base.

LJ
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 18:26
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Leon - yes I do know this in considerable detail! I fly as a survey pilot, so my current job entails building topographical maps in remote parts of the world. But even flying low and slow, with large format vertical cameras and the best available civilian IMUs, and then sending out ground surveyors to get GCPs (in order to pin the 3D map to a datum such as WGS84 or DTED, or any of the other standards), we cannot get much better than a metre vertical accuracy. So I would question the accuracy of topo maps in some remote areas of the world if they have only been satellite surveyed and are too hostile/remote to obtain accurate GCP data.
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Old 13th Jan 2014, 18:40
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Trim

The Space Shuttle using a RADAR surveyed about 90% of the globe with a 10m accuracy (about 30ft or 1hPa) about 10 years ago. There are other more advanced satellites that can map terrain to far higher tolerances.

I'll take a 30ft accurate terrain database, linked to a RADALT, any day over a barometric instrument.

LJ
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