Jankers never looked so good
Dictators kill to stay in power, because that's how far they can get away with. Dictators carry out election fraud, because that's how far they can get away with. Politicians lie to the public, because that's how far they can get away with.
Its all down to how much they can get away with. Mugabe, Hussain, Gaddaffi, Idi Amin and many others are on the list. I have no doubt that Mugabe would copy N Korea if he could.
Interestingly, DC10 man has a point. Labour/Bliar lied lied lied to hold on to power. When Gordon Brown took over, witnesses say he went power crazy. It is my belief that he would have done a hell of a lot more if he could have gotten away with it. We had a lucky escape from that man (in my opinion of course)
Its all down to how much they can get away with. Mugabe, Hussain, Gaddaffi, Idi Amin and many others are on the list. I have no doubt that Mugabe would copy N Korea if he could.
Interestingly, DC10 man has a point. Labour/Bliar lied lied lied to hold on to power. When Gordon Brown took over, witnesses say he went power crazy. It is my belief that he would have done a hell of a lot more if he could have gotten away with it. We had a lucky escape from that man (in my opinion of course)
Just to be on the safeside I was clapping while reading about the 'dear' leader.
Greenknight 121 and SOSL:
I will always wonder what really happened to Dr David Kelly, a weapons inspector of the highest calibre. We have still not had a proper Coroners inquest, just the so called Hutton enquiry whitewash. How many died or were executed following extraordinary rendition authorised by Blair, Straw et al.
They may not have actually witnessed it but they were aware of it. One case has just been thrown out of the high court because of security considerations about someone rendered back to Libya just before that, I can't put what I feel as it would be or could construed as libellous about that man Blair.
Really?
Who did Blair have arbitrarily executed in front of UK government officials?
Who did Blair have arbitrarily executed in front of UK government officials?
They may not have actually witnessed it but they were aware of it. One case has just been thrown out of the high court because of security considerations about someone rendered back to Libya just before that, I can't put what I feel as it would be or could construed as libellous about that man Blair.
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air pig hits the nail squarely on the head.
Mr B Liar can try to cling on to his Teflon Tony persona all he likes but there's a shed-load of evidence emerging to suggest he knew just what was going on..
CS
Mr B Liar can try to cling on to his Teflon Tony persona all he likes but there's a shed-load of evidence emerging to suggest he knew just what was going on..
CS
I'm with Air Pig on this one. Bliar has to be worthy of extradition to The Hague and a war crimes/ crimes against humanity trial. I don't give a stuff for Bush, he's a problem for American conscience. Bliar is though a blight on Britain, its politics and its reputation.
Smudge
Smudge
In 1946, many of the German High command both civil and military, were executed for various offences, mainly, Crimes against Humanity and Waging Aggressive War.
What has happened in the recent past in my view could be considered these crimes. Blair has misled Parliament and the people of the UK into waging wars which have still not ended, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, committing British forces into a conflict without end. Some people of a left ward political leaning claim the Conservative Party also approved of the invasion of Iraq, yes this is true but they will have received briefings under Privy Council rules and what were they told or misled into believing is the most important part.
The Chillcot enquirey maybe muzzled due to the civil servants stopping evidence about the conversations between Blair and Bush being revealed.
One day I hope he and others involved will be arrested and tried as a war criminals at the Hague and receive a due sentence.
What has happened in the recent past in my view could be considered these crimes. Blair has misled Parliament and the people of the UK into waging wars which have still not ended, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, committing British forces into a conflict without end. Some people of a left ward political leaning claim the Conservative Party also approved of the invasion of Iraq, yes this is true but they will have received briefings under Privy Council rules and what were they told or misled into believing is the most important part.
The Chillcot enquirey maybe muzzled due to the civil servants stopping evidence about the conversations between Blair and Bush being revealed.
One day I hope he and others involved will be arrested and tried as a war criminals at the Hague and receive a due sentence.
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And you're not alone, and all those MP's that know the truth should also be arrested as accessories
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Koreans do seem to have a penchant for cruelty. In WWII, many were used by the Japanese as guards for allied POW's. They seemed to relish cruelty more so than the Japs, which is saying something!
As for Blair...an utter fraud.
As for Blair...an utter fraud.
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Woptb, you think that was a 'stretch'???
In my opinion, Mr Brown was an unstable leader, who believed it was his 'right' to be prime minister because TeflonTony promised him. He wasn't arsed about the people electing him, it was his position to take. He aggressively smeared other party members and lied (x1000000) to the British public. What proof have I??? Absolutely zero. But it is my belief that he showed the character traits of a good old dictator.
I loved being in the RAF for my 24 years, but I felt I had to leave on principal because I didn't trust Tony and co with my life and my country.
Politicians are there to serve the people and do what is right, long term, for their country. None of them do that of course, but some are far more destructive than others, killing British people to serve their own needs.
In my opinion, Mr Brown was an unstable leader, who believed it was his 'right' to be prime minister because TeflonTony promised him. He wasn't arsed about the people electing him, it was his position to take. He aggressively smeared other party members and lied (x1000000) to the British public. What proof have I??? Absolutely zero. But it is my belief that he showed the character traits of a good old dictator.
I loved being in the RAF for my 24 years, but I felt I had to leave on principal because I didn't trust Tony and co with my life and my country.
Politicians are there to serve the people and do what is right, long term, for their country. None of them do that of course, but some are far more destructive than others, killing British people to serve their own needs.
The oleaginous Bliar, whose personal wealth increased by £13M last year, knew full well that his nuLabor nonsense had ruined the nation and that he wasn't going to win another election. So he dropped Brown into the leadership - and Brown was simply out of his depth and couldn't cope.
Perhaps one of these days Bliar will be held to account - and his interference with the SFO probe into allegations of BWoS bribery put under the microscope, as well as the truth regarding Dr. Kelly's death.
Perhaps one of these days Bliar will be held to account - and his interference with the SFO probe into allegations of BWoS bribery put under the microscope, as well as the truth regarding Dr. Kelly's death.
Last edited by BEagle; 5th Jan 2014 at 12:24.
That a certain company it is alleged to be involved in bribery is a question that could be levelled at at least one certain American company and I'm sure some European ones as well.
I do hope Blair and his cabal one day face justice in a court of law. Blair is very careful where he travels, only places it would be difficult to arrest him for war crimes, Spain comes to mind. Maybe the British public should flood Crimestoppers or report his alleged crimes through the Met Police on line with the allegation of war crimes under the law that Blair pushed through Parliament.
I do hope Blair and his cabal one day face justice in a court of law. Blair is very careful where he travels, only places it would be difficult to arrest him for war crimes, Spain comes to mind. Maybe the British public should flood Crimestoppers or report his alleged crimes through the Met Police on line with the allegation of war crimes under the law that Blair pushed through Parliament.
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For anyone else that needed to look it up . . .
OLEAGINOUS, adj. Oily, smooth, sleek.
Disraeli once described the manner of Bishop Wilberforce as
"unctuous, oleaginous, saponaceous." And the good prelate was ever
afterward known as Soapy Sam. For every man there is something in the
vocabulary that would stick to him like a second skin. His enemies
have only to find it.
Perfect word BEags, but DO desist . . .
Disraeli once described the manner of Bishop Wilberforce as
"unctuous, oleaginous, saponaceous." And the good prelate was ever
afterward known as Soapy Sam. For every man there is something in the
vocabulary that would stick to him like a second skin. His enemies
have only to find it.
Perfect word BEags, but DO desist . . .
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I know this is t'internet where any freak, whacko and deluded tub-thumper can say his say but suggesting soapy Tone to be a "war criminal" is simply ridiculous, and comparing him to Nazi war criminals beggars belief. If he did get involved in rendition (and what if he did) any "criminality" of the act is on a level with a parking violation compared to what the Nazis did.
Get a sense of proportion, for God's sake.
No, I couldn't stand the man and Brown even less but we need to understand that politics sometimes deviousness, often involves secrecy and may sometimes, especially in times of war, involve downright chicanery. But let's not start calling "war criminal" for the normal exigencies of the service.
Get a sense of proportion, for God's sake.
No, I couldn't stand the man and Brown even less but we need to understand that politics sometimes deviousness, often involves secrecy and may sometimes, especially in times of war, involve downright chicanery. But let's not start calling "war criminal" for the normal exigencies of the service.
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So what level of criminal activity do you class as 'acceptable' from a politician? You say 'so what' about rendition. Some of these people who were sent 'the other way' will be tortured or dead. But they are just terrorists, aren't they? They deserve it, don't they?
As wrong as our laws are, they are still our laws and people in authority MUST abide by them. Misleading and misrepresenting WMD reports were used to justify a WAR for gods sake!!
A genuine question that is going way off thread, is rendition illegal, as they don't get due legal process??
This could be relevant to the thread, Korea are brutal murders and admit it, Western countries don't have people killed, do they?
As wrong as our laws are, they are still our laws and people in authority MUST abide by them. Misleading and misrepresenting WMD reports were used to justify a WAR for gods sake!!
A genuine question that is going way off thread, is rendition illegal, as they don't get due legal process??
This could be relevant to the thread, Korea are brutal murders and admit it, Western countries don't have people killed, do they?
Ab:
Ab, we were not at war though, we were acting through the No Fly zones under a UN mandate, no more no less. Show me a Declaration of War, you cannot because it does not exist, so the accusation of waging aggressive war stands. This is illegal under UN Law. Blair and Bush stand accused in the eyes of the world, more importantly what if one of your relatives was rendered to the USA without due process of law, I bet you'd be screaming from the rooftops about it being illegal, and unfair.
Blair lied to go to war when even the UN Weapons Inspectors said they could find no evidence of WMD, but to return to the theme of the thread, it is reported that NK have kidnapped foreign nationals for nefarious purposes, committed crimes against his own population but unless they attack South Korea the world will do nothing, in fact will help him by giving aid as the UK does because he has WMD .Oh before you ask, it maybe deployable using unconventional means such as a freight container, lose the documents whilst it's aboard various container vessels a few times and it's not impossible for it to arrive at Tilbury or the East River and go bang.
What the Nazi's (Germans) did, started with their own countryman with the opening of the 'wild' Kz such a Columbia Haus in Berlin in 1933/4 and then formulated into the Dachau model of a Kz in 1934 with the arresting of trade unionists and communists, later leading to persecuting of the Jewish population of Germany and Austria culminating in Kristalnacht in November 1938. The world knew what was happening but did very little. There was even UK government papers in Parliament about what was going on, but we and the world did nothing and even enforced the Balfour declaration. This the position we are at now with NK.
I know this is t'internet where any freak, whacko and deluded tub-thumper can say his say but suggesting soapy Tone to be a "war criminal" is simply ridiculous, and comparing him to Nazi war criminals beggars belief. If he did get involved in rendition (and what if he did) any "criminality" of the act is on a level with a parking violation compared to what the Nazis did.
Get a sense of proportion, for God's sake.
No, I couldn't stand the man and Brown even less but we need to understand that politics sometimes deviousness, often involves secrecy and may sometimes, especially in times of war, involve downright chicanery. But let's not start calling "war criminal" for the normal exigencies of the service.
Get a sense of proportion, for God's sake.
No, I couldn't stand the man and Brown even less but we need to understand that politics sometimes deviousness, often involves secrecy and may sometimes, especially in times of war, involve downright chicanery. But let's not start calling "war criminal" for the normal exigencies of the service.
Blair lied to go to war when even the UN Weapons Inspectors said they could find no evidence of WMD, but to return to the theme of the thread, it is reported that NK have kidnapped foreign nationals for nefarious purposes, committed crimes against his own population but unless they attack South Korea the world will do nothing, in fact will help him by giving aid as the UK does because he has WMD .Oh before you ask, it maybe deployable using unconventional means such as a freight container, lose the documents whilst it's aboard various container vessels a few times and it's not impossible for it to arrive at Tilbury or the East River and go bang.
What the Nazi's (Germans) did, started with their own countryman with the opening of the 'wild' Kz such a Columbia Haus in Berlin in 1933/4 and then formulated into the Dachau model of a Kz in 1934 with the arresting of trade unionists and communists, later leading to persecuting of the Jewish population of Germany and Austria culminating in Kristalnacht in November 1938. The world knew what was happening but did very little. There was even UK government papers in Parliament about what was going on, but we and the world did nothing and even enforced the Balfour declaration. This the position we are at now with NK.
Last edited by air pig; 5th Jan 2014 at 14:56.
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Blair lied to go to war when even the UN Weapons Inspectors said they could find no evidence of WMD
Saddam had nerve gas. We know because he'd used it on several occasions. Proven without doubt. We know he had hordes of Scuds that could deliver it against Israel, as he had promised to do on numerous occasions. Proven without doubt.
Never in the history of warfare (afaik) has someone with a devastating capability such as that chosen to dispose of it secretly in the face of an inevitable, and inevitably futile conflict. So, without that 20-20 vision Bliar stands accused of failing to use, how tha heck could he or any of the Western Allies have anticipated him to do this? Yet he did. As the facts show. And had he been told a the last minute that Saddams WMD had mysteriously "disappeared" would anyone have believed he had disposed of them, rather than just hidden them? No, of course not. Intel like that would have been laughed out of existence for being so preposterously and obviously wrong. Yet that is what happened. We'll find out one day where they went. (Jordan is my guess).
And as to whingeing about rendition, has every conflict not seen underhand and murky activities?
Have we got so politically (in)correct that we must put terrorist or military threats in the hands of the fukken CPS and social workers when action needs to be taken against them NOW? So what if some of them got hurt? Prefer hundreds of our boys to die instead because you so wanted to wrap the enemy commanders in cotton wool that you left them be instead of playing it a bit rough?
God help us!
You have a very skewed view in my humble opinion. before GW1 Saddam and his government were warned by James Baker the US Secretary of State, through the UN that any use of WMDs would provoke a massive overwhelming response that would destroy Iraq. Remember during the Iran Iraq war that chemical weapons had been deployed and used, just as in Halylabja with the use of blister and nerve agents. So the history was there.
There is already president for the arrest of ex heads of state within the UK. Ordered by the UK courts on a warrant from Spain and supported by Straw. Found to be unfit to plead.
Pinochet arrested in London | World news | theguardian.com
The arrest of Augusto Pinochet: ten years on | openDemocracy
Tipi Livni, the Israeli Foreign Affairs minister did not come to the UK after it was put that she could be arrested despite diplomatic immunity.
Rendition, you have not answered the question, if one of your family was rendered to the US, would you scream and shout or stay silent. Why in your view have we not taken action against the NK regime.
There is already president for the arrest of ex heads of state within the UK. Ordered by the UK courts on a warrant from Spain and supported by Straw. Found to be unfit to plead.
Pinochet arrested in London | World news | theguardian.com
The arrest of Augusto Pinochet: ten years on | openDemocracy
Tipi Livni, the Israeli Foreign Affairs minister did not come to the UK after it was put that she could be arrested despite diplomatic immunity.
Rendition, you have not answered the question, if one of your family was rendered to the US, would you scream and shout or stay silent. Why in your view have we not taken action against the NK regime.
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You cannot expect to be taken seriously if your sense of proportion is so chronically imbalanced that you see fit to compare Blair with Pinochet.
If a soldier pinches a Mars Bar from the NAAFI in wartime does that make it a "war crime"? By your "logic" I imagine it does.
I'm not going to persist in an intellectual battle with an unarmed man.
Bye.
If a soldier pinches a Mars Bar from the NAAFI in wartime does that make it a "war crime"? By your "logic" I imagine it does.
I'm not going to persist in an intellectual battle with an unarmed man.
Bye.
You sir, have merely proved one thing, you have an unsustainable argument and a lack of respect for the law and the laws and usages of war. You have not replied to the question of rendition if it was applied to a member of your family. Would you be on the left of the political spectrum as this is the only way you can present your view.
Theft from the NAFFi would be dealt with under military law, but to try to conflate that with the responsibility of politicians is to my mind facile and lacks intellectual rigour.
Theft from the NAFFi would be dealt with under military law, but to try to conflate that with the responsibility of politicians is to my mind facile and lacks intellectual rigour.