Substitute Marine A for Pilot A.
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I remember clearly during GWII a film crew with a US Marine company who filmed a marine shooting a wounded and at the time non-combatant insurgent through a window and saying 'He's done.' and calmly walking away. This was on national TV.
If anyone thinks that what Marine A did was a one off aberration then they must be seriously away with the fairies. War does terrible things to people and not just to those who are injured or killed. You cannot really expect that every person who you train to kill will be unaffected by their actions and act as rational and reasonable human being. If there are to be consequences for those who fall by the wayside then there must also be consequences for those who did not pick up on the fact that Marine A was going off the rails.
If anyone thinks that what Marine A did was a one off aberration then they must be seriously away with the fairies. War does terrible things to people and not just to those who are injured or killed. You cannot really expect that every person who you train to kill will be unaffected by their actions and act as rational and reasonable human being. If there are to be consequences for those who fall by the wayside then there must also be consequences for those who did not pick up on the fact that Marine A was going off the rails.
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OOT - to extend Toadstool's comment... remember that Marine A and his men had taken their victim into custody, disarmed him, and moved him to a more-secure location before the fatal shot was fired.
This is a huge difference, and which does make his act into a crime.
Jon Alexander. Sgt USMC 1981-1989
This is a huge difference, and which does make his act into a crime.
Jon Alexander. Sgt USMC 1981-1989
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I'm not condoning his actions, nor am I criticising the US Marines. I'm just saying that in war these things are going to happen and we shouldn't be aghast when they do and pretend they are one off incidents. I'm assuming that marine A was highly thought of as he was up for promotion so the chances are he wasn't a homicidal maniac, just a bloke who had gone over the edge.
There seems to be a baying pack amongst the chatterati who will no doubt be rubbing their soft and unsullied hands with delight that he and his co defendants have been named.
There seems to be a baying pack amongst the chatterati who will no doubt be rubbing their soft and unsullied hands with delight that he and his co defendants have been named.
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Justice ?
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the Marine A case the courts decision to release his name has made his family and friends the target for all sorts of trouble ranging from gutter press intrusion to the potential for revenge attacks by militant factions.
Marine A will no doubt be banged up and safe, his family and friends will not have that protection.
This is the sacrifice of the lives of the innocent to serve so called justice.
Marine A will no doubt be banged up and safe, his family and friends will not have that protection.
This is the sacrifice of the lives of the innocent to serve so called justice.
That was a very unfortunate and disappointing decision by the three judges.
Furthermore, if the names of those who were found not guilty are to be released then why not release the names of every Brit who's been in a contact and the SF and the addresses of all the government and Civil Service personnel involved?
You couldn't make it up!
Furthermore, if the names of those who were found not guilty are to be released then why not release the names of every Brit who's been in a contact and the SF and the addresses of all the government and Civil Service personnel involved?
You couldn't make it up!
Life - with a minimum of 10 years.
I was in Whitehall today and there was a stinking handful of EDL supporters opposite Downing Street demanding 'justice' for Marine A. I engaged them in an attempt at conversation (and that's when I discovered the two guys reeked of alcohol). Their argument was along the lines of 'the Taliban aren't signatories to the Geneva Law (sic) thus it shouldn't apply to Sgt Blackman. When I pointed out that Sgt B had shot the wounded and disarmed man in cold blood, they agreed that it was 'sort of' murder, but the EeeYew shouldn't dictate our laws. I did try to correct their shallow understanding of IHL, but they were packing up and heading off to the pub!
It is unfortunate for his family that he has been named but the need for judicial transparency is paramount. Furthermore protection of his family - if really needed - is a matter for the police and not the judiciary.
I was in Whitehall today and there was a stinking handful of EDL supporters opposite Downing Street demanding 'justice' for Marine A. I engaged them in an attempt at conversation (and that's when I discovered the two guys reeked of alcohol). Their argument was along the lines of 'the Taliban aren't signatories to the Geneva Law (sic) thus it shouldn't apply to Sgt Blackman. When I pointed out that Sgt B had shot the wounded and disarmed man in cold blood, they agreed that it was 'sort of' murder, but the EeeYew shouldn't dictate our laws. I did try to correct their shallow understanding of IHL, but they were packing up and heading off to the pub!
It is unfortunate for his family that he has been named but the need for judicial transparency is paramount. Furthermore protection of his family - if really needed - is a matter for the police and not the judiciary.
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10 years is a long old time.
You that still serve, you have all been warned. This sentence is a punishment for this individuals act and a warning for your future conduct on operations, be in no doubt.
Wonder how long before political commissars are embedded into operational units to study film, combat footage and analyse reports to try and find transgressors of the Geneva Conv. and all else (on our side)? Think me mad, but I think this will happen sooner rather than later, after today.
Wonder how long before political commissars are embedded into operational units to study film, combat footage and analyse reports to try and find transgressors of the Geneva Conv. and all else (on our side)? Think me mad, but I think this will happen sooner rather than later, after today.
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Your a braver man than me, happy.
I wouldn't talk to them mate, they're nutter's, half of them. This case has been too emotive by far for a lot of people, including me. People turn really nasty over the whole thing at the drop of a hat.
10 years+ = another life ruined by the whole bloody stupid war.
10 years+ = another life ruined by the whole bloody stupid war.
It is unfortunate for his family that he has been named
Life for an act in a war zone where the ragheads were trying to kill you & your comrades! What has our country come to where the exalted judges - who have never done a days manual labour, & live at the taxpayers expense on a daily basis in utter comfort. What a parody!
The EDL make my blood boil and engaging with them reinforced my view that they are ignorant, weasily thickos. But loads of passing vehicles did toot their horns, presumably in support for their wider, racist, ideals.
To the matter at hand, the Sgt did murder the wounded unarmed prisoner, with malice aforethought. Behaviour of the taliban is largely irrelevant. However, he is unlikely to be regarded as a dangerous prisoner so one hopes that he will be moved to an open prison in due course.
To the matter at hand, the Sgt did murder the wounded unarmed prisoner, with malice aforethought. Behaviour of the taliban is largely irrelevant. However, he is unlikely to be regarded as a dangerous prisoner so one hopes that he will be moved to an open prison in due course.
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With regards the EDL mob, I couldn't agree more. The car hoots of course might have been showing support for Marine A.
Not too sure I understand why naming him ensures judicial transparency,
It is unfortunate for his family that he has been named but the need for judicial transparency is paramount
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Note how our fear of terrorism (Terror according to the media) has had a direct effect on a lot of our activities as so called "free" citizens. The non GC people will always win against all the angst directed at our forces. Its all "them" and very little "us". What, I wonder, will all the clever, safe, townie lawyers do when we all come under Taliban type law in several years time? I'm old and won't live to see it. Good luck all.
I'm lost for words.........he'd seen his mates wounded or killed. What the hell does the judge know about a high pressure environment like war.......but then I suspect there are some officers who should hang their heads in shame........after all, aren't they the ones who found him guilty in the first place!
I don't think for a minute he'd have posed a threat had he been released. I'm so glad my son left the army........hanging good people out to dry is what we're best at these days! I feel so very sorry for him and his family! I bet those evil creatures that butchered Lee Rigby will be afforded more in the way of human rights.......their defence paid for by the good people of this sorry nation!
I give up.......truly, I give up!
I don't think for a minute he'd have posed a threat had he been released. I'm so glad my son left the army........hanging good people out to dry is what we're best at these days! I feel so very sorry for him and his family! I bet those evil creatures that butchered Lee Rigby will be afforded more in the way of human rights.......their defence paid for by the good people of this sorry nation!
I give up.......truly, I give up!
Whoops my post has vanished.
Basically, not only has Justice to be done, it also has to be seen to be done. If his name remained supressed, this would give rise to all sort of wild conspiracy theories and set a precedent in other case. There would also be the lingering concern wondering why 'the Government' did not want to reveal the name of a convicted murderer, implying, perhaps, there was some cover-up.
Sgt Blackwood is an experienced leader and all the more reason for him to set an example, whereas in a cold, calculated way he murdered an unarmed, injured man, whom he presumed was an insurgent (he had not been in'contact' with this man). As I mentioned above, what the Taliban would do in a parallel situation is irrelevant. HM Forces are required to adhere to IHL/LOAC as well as civilian law, and dare I say, moral decency. The study of the history of counter-terrorism is something I have spent a lot of time on - and I cannot think of any occasion when government brutality has prevailed. The oft-cited Malayan Emergency was only 'won' because British and Commonwealth forces won the hearts and minds by being considerably better behaved than the so-called MPLA.
Basically, not only has Justice to be done, it also has to be seen to be done. If his name remained supressed, this would give rise to all sort of wild conspiracy theories and set a precedent in other case. There would also be the lingering concern wondering why 'the Government' did not want to reveal the name of a convicted murderer, implying, perhaps, there was some cover-up.
Sgt Blackwood is an experienced leader and all the more reason for him to set an example, whereas in a cold, calculated way he murdered an unarmed, injured man, whom he presumed was an insurgent (he had not been in'contact' with this man). As I mentioned above, what the Taliban would do in a parallel situation is irrelevant. HM Forces are required to adhere to IHL/LOAC as well as civilian law, and dare I say, moral decency. The study of the history of counter-terrorism is something I have spent a lot of time on - and I cannot think of any occasion when government brutality has prevailed. The oft-cited Malayan Emergency was only 'won' because British and Commonwealth forces won the hearts and minds by being considerably better behaved than the so-called MPLA.
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Anyone discussion which contains the unchallenged use of the word "raghead" might perhaps be considered unworthy of dignifying with a response but I can't stop myself from contributing. I appreciate that this is the internet and thus has all of the quality control of a British Leyland car plant but I find that the amount of uninformed comment and out of touch bluster on this thread is incredible.
Military personnel on the ground are dealing with a high-tempo, multi-faceted conflict which regularly proves ambiguous in terms of both morality and legality. What is not ambiguous is whether it is legally acceptable for an individual who is no longer a threat to be deliberately shot by a member of HM Armed Forces. That's the long and the short of it and I have great difficulty is seeing anything else (whilst adding colour) as simply irrelevant.
I was in Helmand at the time, patrolling the same fields and compounds, facing the same dangers, seeing my friends and colleagues shot and blown-up and riding the same emotional roller-coaster (albeit in a different unit in a different part of the British AOR). Having "walked in his boots" (which so many of you consider is a prerequisite), I do feel in a position to judge. One can contextualise, sympathise and, with my experience, empathise but I cannot for one second condone what was done. It is a non-negotiable requirement of our personnel to behave with morality in an oft-times immoral conflict which sets us apart. I couldn't give a monkey's about how the insurgents or other nations behave; I am held to account by UK standards of behaviour and UK laws and should frame my actions in that knowledge. This individual failed to uphold the trust placed upon him both as an individual and a leader. It makes me incredibly angry that all of the good work and the price paid by our country in Afghanistan in both blood and treasure has been tarnished by this deed.
It is perfectly legitimate to discuss the reasons why the UK has a military presence in Afghanistan, what effect our political and military engagement in that country have has and whether it has been worthwhile. What is indisputable (without even stopping to look at issues of morality) is that shooting an individual who is wounded, incapacitated and no longer presenting a threat is illegal and I for one am glad that it remains the case even in a war of such shades of grey.
MB
Military personnel on the ground are dealing with a high-tempo, multi-faceted conflict which regularly proves ambiguous in terms of both morality and legality. What is not ambiguous is whether it is legally acceptable for an individual who is no longer a threat to be deliberately shot by a member of HM Armed Forces. That's the long and the short of it and I have great difficulty is seeing anything else (whilst adding colour) as simply irrelevant.
I was in Helmand at the time, patrolling the same fields and compounds, facing the same dangers, seeing my friends and colleagues shot and blown-up and riding the same emotional roller-coaster (albeit in a different unit in a different part of the British AOR). Having "walked in his boots" (which so many of you consider is a prerequisite), I do feel in a position to judge. One can contextualise, sympathise and, with my experience, empathise but I cannot for one second condone what was done. It is a non-negotiable requirement of our personnel to behave with morality in an oft-times immoral conflict which sets us apart. I couldn't give a monkey's about how the insurgents or other nations behave; I am held to account by UK standards of behaviour and UK laws and should frame my actions in that knowledge. This individual failed to uphold the trust placed upon him both as an individual and a leader. It makes me incredibly angry that all of the good work and the price paid by our country in Afghanistan in both blood and treasure has been tarnished by this deed.
It is perfectly legitimate to discuss the reasons why the UK has a military presence in Afghanistan, what effect our political and military engagement in that country have has and whether it has been worthwhile. What is indisputable (without even stopping to look at issues of morality) is that shooting an individual who is wounded, incapacitated and no longer presenting a threat is illegal and I for one am glad that it remains the case even in a war of such shades of grey.
MB
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You that still serve, you have all been warned. This sentence is a punishment for this individuals act and a warning for your future conduct on operations, be in no doubt.
Wonder how long before political commissars are embedded into operational units to study film, combat footage and analyse reports to try and find transgressors of the Geneva Conv. and all else (on our side)? Think me mad, but I think this will happen sooner rather than later, after today.
Wonder how long before political commissars are embedded into operational units to study film, combat footage and analyse reports to try and find transgressors of the Geneva Conv. and all else (on our side)? Think me mad, but I think this will happen sooner rather than later, after today.