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Have Doughnut

Old 3rd Nov 2013, 20:01
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Have Doughnut

Extremely interesting declassified document linked courtesy of David Cenciotti, (the Aviationist)

The operation "Have Doughnut" evaluated the Mig-21 capabilities in Area 51, when flown against F-4, F-100, F-111, F-8, A-4 etc

PDF download here :-

http://theaviationist.com/wp-content...vedoughnut.pdf
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 20:06
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operation "Have Doughnut"
I initially thought that the thread was about JFK!
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 20:07
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Google also "Have Drill" / "Have Ferry" (MiG 17s) and "Constant Peg" for story of the use of Soviet types for classified air combat training.

There's a a great book about this: Red Eagles, by Steve Davies.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 21:18
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operation "Have Doughnut"
I thought it was a story about a no-fly day...

S41
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 21:20
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Fascinating . . . thanks
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 22:00
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Likewise
Would be grateful if anyone has a link to a Mig 23 assessment.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 22:01
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or the last culinery event of a mineval at Laarbruch..................
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 22:21
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MiG!

Mi for Mikoyan

G for Gurevich

FFS!
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 06:21
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There is a little book "Fighter Performance in Practice, Phantom versus MIG 21", by Predrag and Nenad Pavlovic; quite interesting.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 15:31
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Thank you for posting, good stuff.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 17:01
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I have just started reading this book and immediately came across an anomaly.

It states that the Mig-21 was flown from Israel to the US in 1968 in the back of a C5 Galaxy and tested there between Feb and March of that year.
The problem is that the Galaxy only had its first flight in June of that year and was not operational until two years later.

That sort of thing makes one doubt the accuracy of all the following data.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 18:37
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sitigeltfel,

On what page and paragraph do you see a reference to a C_5, or Israel? ?

I just can`t see it.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 18:47
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How they got hold of the MiG-21 in the Have Doughnut report

Details here,
Have Doughnut
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 19:03
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I knew right away there were not talking about that Thursday morning all hands staple. Today it would be "have a carrot stick"
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 19:06
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Sandozer, Sitigeltfel is referring to 'Red Eagles: America's Secret MiGs'

Page 17

Red Eagles: America's Secret MiGs - Steve Davies - Google Books

Just a mix-up with transport types. The aircraft was a C-141 which was later replaced by a C-133 due to maintenance issues.

The Roswell Incident, YF110 and Constant Peg. Curtis Peebles | MAGONIA
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 19:38
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Thanks for that TEEEJ, I know I saw no reference to a C-5 in the original link posted, thought I was going a tad more doolally !!
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 21:16
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There's a specimen at Fighterworld in Williamtown here in NSW - two seat version.
What is striking studying it in reality up close is how rough as guts it is - it really looks and feels like the jet fighter equivalent of a Lada.
Interesting to see that there were 16mm film cameras mounted on and inside the aircarft, particularly to record cockpit ergonomics during simulated engagements - over the shoulder pilot view.
I wonder if any of that will see the light of day - would be intriguing to see.

Last edited by tartare; 4th Nov 2013 at 21:27.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 22:25
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Thumbs up

Most of us on the Kipper Fleet had 2000 doughnuts...night.

Last edited by Avtur; 4th Nov 2013 at 22:55.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 22:57
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Is the training video "Throw a Nickel on the Grass" available anywhere?
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Old 5th Nov 2013, 00:39
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This part surprised me:
"The A-6A demonstrated an excellent ability to turn with the MiG-21 at slow speeds, close in. In a level scissors maneuver, the A-6A has the ability to outmaneuver the MiG-21."
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