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FG.1/FGR.2/F-4J(UK) yellow triangles question...

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FG.1/FGR.2/F-4J(UK) yellow triangles question...

Old 2nd Nov 2013, 17:59
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FG.1/FGR.2/F-4J(UK) yellow triangles question...

I think its been mentioned on here before but, i can't find it now... What did the small yellow triangles on the air scoops just behind the radome denote? I'm sure it was to do with the mod state in regard to the Skyflash, can someone elaborate please?

MTIA, RP

Last edited by Rhino power; 2nd Nov 2013 at 18:01.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 19:22
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I thought they were white? It showed whether the jet'd had the '80 update' mod., I think - but Courtney Mil will know!

Last edited by BEagle; 2nd Nov 2013 at 19:25.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 19:33
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A single yellow triangle denoted embodiment of Radar Update 77-1 from 1978 onwards which conferred compatibility with Skyflash. Those aircraft without it could only be loaded with Sparrow. When the update was first introduced, it added a whole new level of considerations for engineers at the front line. The Phantom radar had several readily exchangeable Line Replaceable Units (LRUs). Some of these LRUs, once updated at 3rd/4th line, could only be used in the updated radars. For some LRUs, there were typically only 2 spares between 2 x squadrons. One spare had to be sent off-base for update - then there was only pre-update spare on base. When the updated spare returned, there was now only the updated spare on base as the pre-update one went away. Then when it returned, there were now 2 x updated ones and no pre-updated ones. This led to a lot of robbing between aircraft of both mod-states to maintain the overall 70% SACEUR readiness requirement each night. Occasionally, the only way to maintain the required readiness in RAFG, or to get the most out of a limited duration Missile Practice Camp at Valley, was to use an aircraft to ferry a U/S LRU in the nose and go and collect a serviceable LRU from a location that had one.

The additional yellow markings denoted later updates which added incremental improvements in capability such as snap-start on the Skyflash. I can't recall the other precise details.

Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 2nd Nov 2013 at 20:53.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 19:47
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Are these the said triangles ?

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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 19:50
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CoffmanStarter - Yes.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 20:27
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3 yellow triangles was "80' update as far as I remember. I shredded my "gen" book finally about 8 years ago with the list of backward compatible LRUs. 4A3 sticks in my mind for some reason as not being retro compatible perhaps that was a "I learnt about working on MCS' from that! story that I've long forgot.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 07:41
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Thanks for the replies chaps!

-RP
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 08:40
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Rhino ...

Mind you ... there's symbology and symbology

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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 21:41
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I think the 3rd triangle was for the IFF interrogator upgrade (which, AISTR, seriously b**ggered the radar performance). This removed the old strike/attack functionality completely.

Certainly, when we first went down to the FI we were only and specifically allocated Phase 2 upgrades, even though Phase 3 aircraft were available, and I often wondered why they wanted attack capable aircraft down there when we did not have the weapons, the weapon carriers or the right training. In fact we were always told that if the strike lights came on, to keep pressing the mode switch until they went out.

Personally, I got hold of an old strike checklist and made an effort to understand the strike moding and found the system to be really good for radar fixing and low level nav by putting the LCOSS over the radar waypoint. Pretty good for radar approaches as well. Phase 3 kicked that on the head.

Last edited by BSweeper; 3rd Nov 2013 at 21:44.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 00:59
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Thanks for your input BSweeper, fascinating info!

-RP
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 06:14
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Not wishing to conflate strike/attack, we were "refreshed" at strafing before deployment to FI, and practised shooting at dead Pukaras whilst down there. There was also the old sparrow fast patrol boat profile, in extremis.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 21:47
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Busta - you're right, it really doesn't matter much but I thought to set the record straight.

Yes we did practice strafe before we went out and out there we always carried the SUU gun. I discovered why when we came across a trawler with no nets 20nm inside the FIPZ which is a long story I could tell but with little point.

It was amazing that the old strike pilots managed 70%+ scores practising strafe whilst the young AD pilots barely managed 30%. There's just no substitute for experience. As for Sparrow (Skyflash) vs fishing boats, firstly the cost (0.5m against a tin boat) and secondly the missile would launch in wide speed band (no accurate doppler input) which would guarantee a miss (IMHO). We will, thankfully, never know.

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Old 7th Nov 2013, 18:51
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I left the force in 85 and the 3 pennants were in service for some years before that. 1 pennant 77 update, 2 pennants 80 update and 3 pennants Skyflash with the reliability update. Jubilee Guardsman (IFF Int) came after my time.

Strafe came back when 29 hit the Falklands and it seemed like a good idea. AFPB (the anti FPB) profile was dropped around 1978. SAN4 vs a Phantom without ECM somehow seemed a bit naive. I still have a scribbled note somewhere that covers the profile.
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Old 7th Nov 2013, 19:24
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FFS as a old now but youngish air defender at the time I'd settle for 30% of 6000 rounds a minute any day ( I couldn't hit a cows a backside with a banjo at TWU so anything was a bonus....)

Anyhow I have reckon I have got better with age and now have a 100% PK of hitting the top secret pub on the Mall tomorrow...see you all there.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Nov 2013 at 19:34.
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 08:28
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Looks like you'll be at a different pub from all the others, then Wiggy!

Most of the chaps will be in the one on Whitehall . . . . .
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 17:59
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I see Wiggy's navigation hasn't improved.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 18:54
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His twin brother made it ok.
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