A Quick Pose at Deptford Down
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 185
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From: Home
The number four prop does not look right, is it set for a windmill start?
I can remember getting a buddy start from a Belfast, directly behind did not work, so we put right wing behind left wing, or the other way, can't remember which donk would not start. We did get the motor running but the co had to fly the ailerons to stop the aircraft tipping over! There that's dated me!!!
I can remember also doing strip landings on the "Upavon Gallops" the co was told to fly the elevators to cut down the stress on the nose gear from the dreaded hump and we got airborne at 80kts, acceleration was very poor!
I can remember getting a buddy start from a Belfast, directly behind did not work, so we put right wing behind left wing, or the other way, can't remember which donk would not start. We did get the motor running but the co had to fly the ailerons to stop the aircraft tipping over! There that's dated me!!!
I can remember also doing strip landings on the "Upavon Gallops" the co was told to fly the elevators to cut down the stress on the nose gear from the dreaded hump and we got airborne at 80kts, acceleration was very poor!
Last edited by haltonapp; 19th October 2013 at 21:09.
Joined: Mar 2006
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: sussex
Severance ,
I think it was called a 'Buddy' start during my time on the Herc.
You would not really want to attempt a windmill start on a short strip as it took up a lot of runway. When SF Flight was first set up there were no dedicated airframes for SF.
I think it was called a 'Buddy' start during my time on the Herc.
You would not really want to attempt a windmill start on a short strip as it took up a lot of runway. When SF Flight was first set up there were no dedicated airframes for SF.
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 1
From: Wiltshire
As a GE in the 80/90s I was unfortunate enough to experience both Buddy and Windmill starts. The Buddy start seemed, from the point of view of a mere simpleton like myself, to be nothing too demanding and a matter of throwing lots of prop wash at our "needy" donk. My first experience of a windmill start was "above and beyond".
We were returning from points East, and had night stopped in Riyadh. The start at our departure point on the No 4 engine seemed to drag itself out, and on arrival at Riyadh the Eng asked me to see if there was anything obvious to explain it. I looked inside the panels, no sign of damage, leaks, wear anything that could cause a slow start. I did a start on No 4 and it lit up nicely. After 3 hours, beyond the 15 hour day, I called it a day, got a cab and, believe it or not, set the alarm and went to bed.
The start the next morning is quite predictable. On pressing the "Tit" on No 4 no rotation was noted. With three running a quick discussion on't flight deck ensued, decision, offload pax, windmill start, collect pax and bugger off to LCRA, and a kebab. Gratefully, I was not awarded the status of "pax", and was allowed to observe my first windmill start, from a position behind the captains seat. ISTR an OAT around 32C and we shot off down the runway on 3 donks. As I saw it the windmill was basically an "air start" done on the ground, it needs some forward airspeed and we needed to stop before the end of the runway to collect our passengers (one of whom was a high ranking Diplomat). Well, No 4 started and Captain stood on the brakes, all 4 by now in reverse. Lots of stopping and a nice "fast" taxi off the last exit from the active. We collected our passengers and a quick look around the main gear bays confirmed some hot brakes, but nothing untoward. We sat on the parking spot for around 30 minutes to allow the brakes to cool,p and on taxiing the crew did a very thorough check that they were operative. Our progress towards Lyneham continued. I was lucky enough to find a spare starter motor at TASF Akrotiri, always a great place to get to for a GE. Especially when Libby was the encumbent. But having to change the two rear main wheels was a surprise, never noticed that in Riyadh
From personal experience, I feel that a "Buddy" start was probably less stressful for the aircraft and its components than a Windmill, unless of course, you could continue the take off after the windmill. Happy daze !
Smudge
We were returning from points East, and had night stopped in Riyadh. The start at our departure point on the No 4 engine seemed to drag itself out, and on arrival at Riyadh the Eng asked me to see if there was anything obvious to explain it. I looked inside the panels, no sign of damage, leaks, wear anything that could cause a slow start. I did a start on No 4 and it lit up nicely. After 3 hours, beyond the 15 hour day, I called it a day, got a cab and, believe it or not, set the alarm and went to bed.
The start the next morning is quite predictable. On pressing the "Tit" on No 4 no rotation was noted. With three running a quick discussion on't flight deck ensued, decision, offload pax, windmill start, collect pax and bugger off to LCRA, and a kebab. Gratefully, I was not awarded the status of "pax", and was allowed to observe my first windmill start, from a position behind the captains seat. ISTR an OAT around 32C and we shot off down the runway on 3 donks. As I saw it the windmill was basically an "air start" done on the ground, it needs some forward airspeed and we needed to stop before the end of the runway to collect our passengers (one of whom was a high ranking Diplomat). Well, No 4 started and Captain stood on the brakes, all 4 by now in reverse. Lots of stopping and a nice "fast" taxi off the last exit from the active. We collected our passengers and a quick look around the main gear bays confirmed some hot brakes, but nothing untoward. We sat on the parking spot for around 30 minutes to allow the brakes to cool,p and on taxiing the crew did a very thorough check that they were operative. Our progress towards Lyneham continued. I was lucky enough to find a spare starter motor at TASF Akrotiri, always a great place to get to for a GE. Especially when Libby was the encumbent. But having to change the two rear main wheels was a surprise, never noticed that in Riyadh
From personal experience, I feel that a "Buddy" start was probably less stressful for the aircraft and its components than a Windmill, unless of course, you could continue the take off after the windmill. Happy daze !
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 20th October 2013 at 20:54.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 185
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From: Home
I remember doing a windmill start as part of my OCU course at Thorney island, we went to Manston to do it, Len Schofield was my instructor, him of the famous "can you get me the Barnsley QNH co"! "Why"? "Cos I come from there young man"!!!