The US Army At Its Worst!
Thread Starter
ROE's apply to everyone that carries a weapon or flies an Aircraft that is armed.
All of us who have or are going to use Deadly Force are at risk of violating some part of the ROE's no matter how carefully we weigh our options as we do not always have the leisure to spend hours, weeks, or months arguing the pro's and con's of our decisions when our lives and those of our Troops are at risk.
Sad some are incapable of seeing the connection....but then they perhaps are not at risk and thus should not be too quick to challenge the propriety of a discussion on this topic.
BGG.....you ever have to make a decision about shooting someone in combat?
Do tell us about your experience in such matters?
Then perhaps we can assess your knowledge of such business.
As your Bio states you are an Engineer....perhaps you are delving into areas of discussion that are not your usual area of expertise.
All of us who have or are going to use Deadly Force are at risk of violating some part of the ROE's no matter how carefully we weigh our options as we do not always have the leisure to spend hours, weeks, or months arguing the pro's and con's of our decisions when our lives and those of our Troops are at risk.
Sad some are incapable of seeing the connection....but then they perhaps are not at risk and thus should not be too quick to challenge the propriety of a discussion on this topic.
BGG.....you ever have to make a decision about shooting someone in combat?
Do tell us about your experience in such matters?
Then perhaps we can assess your knowledge of such business.
As your Bio states you are an Engineer....perhaps you are delving into areas of discussion that are not your usual area of expertise.
Last edited by SASless; 26th Sep 2013 at 23:24.
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Unfair
I'm a civvie so cannot comment on the rights and wrongs of his actions.
However, 20 years in a Federal Prison seems manifestly out of proportion to the events that happened and the decisions he made.
It really smacks of "setting an example". As usual the poor bastards on the ground get stuck for it.
I would have thought the republicans and the media would be screaming from the rooftops about this but that doesn't seem to have happened.
However, 20 years in a Federal Prison seems manifestly out of proportion to the events that happened and the decisions he made.
It really smacks of "setting an example". As usual the poor bastards on the ground get stuck for it.
I would have thought the republicans and the media would be screaming from the rooftops about this but that doesn't seem to have happened.
Last edited by hoofie; 27th Sep 2013 at 05:17.
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While I disagree with some of SASLess points I think his original post is very topical and absolutely germane to this forum. An interest and understanding of ROEs apply to all in military service even non combatants. I go further, and this is where I disagree with SASLess on point, I believe an interest and understanding of ROEs is equally important of the civil body for whom the military act. So I would add to SASLess' view that "ROE's apply to everyone that carries a weapon or flies an Aircraft that is armed." The ROEs are set by the civil authorities so the ordinary Joe in the street should have an interest and say; after all, the acts are carried out on his behalf.
SASLess thanks for your posts - thought provoking indeed.
SASLess thanks for your posts - thought provoking indeed.
Last edited by TomJoad; 27th Sep 2013 at 16:57.
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I suppose no matter what war you fight there are always going to ROE's that conflict with the aim of the War.
Wasn't it Vietnam that had the visual identification rule for air to air engagement that at a stroke negated the advantage of the Phantom and its at the time advanced Air to Air missile Sytems.
It also brought to the fore ( at the beginning ) that the Phantom wasn't armed with a gun, something previously considered outdated which was hastily rectified.
Wasn't it Vietnam that had the visual identification rule for air to air engagement that at a stroke negated the advantage of the Phantom and its at the time advanced Air to Air missile Sytems.
It also brought to the fore ( at the beginning ) that the Phantom wasn't armed with a gun, something previously considered outdated which was hastily rectified.
Last edited by NutLoose; 27th Sep 2013 at 17:33.
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I have the greatest sympathy for the man, but no-one should be surprised that actions and decisions he made in maybe 5 seconds would be minutely dissected and analysed over several days or even weeks by people with no real knowledge of the circumstances and who have a black or white remit. I do however feel that the 'jury' should surely have had experience even in part. 
Great sadness for this officer and his family.
Great sadness for this officer and his family.
Thread Starter
Yet more gross stupidity by the US Army Senior Leadership!
Understand something folks.....I am a Vietnam Combat Veteran.
I know how we were trained, how we thought about things, and this would never have happened.....NEVER!
When the guys on the Ground called for a medevac.....We Went!
We did not give a **** about Red Crosses on the side of the aircraft, we did not worry about Gunships, we did not worry about the Geneva Accords and the Senior Army Leadership philosophical sensitivities.
We did our best to get the wounded out no matter the risk.
We did not always succeed, we lost aircraft and crews, but we went.
Early in the War the "Dustoff" guys stuck to similar silly rules but over time they too embraced the Creed.
A young US Air Force PJ bleed to death waiting over nine hours for a Medevac Helicopter during the Robert's Ridge fight in Afghanistan....and it appears not much has changed in the way the Army does things.
The USAF and USMC arm their aircraft and go get the Wounded.....the Army for some unfathomable reason thinks doing the way this video shows it.....is the right way.....and brave young Soldiers are dying as a result.
Yes....this makes me angry.....our Soldiers deserve far better Leadership than this!
Did military rules cost a soldier his life? - CBS News
Understand something folks.....I am a Vietnam Combat Veteran.
I know how we were trained, how we thought about things, and this would never have happened.....NEVER!
When the guys on the Ground called for a medevac.....We Went!
We did not give a **** about Red Crosses on the side of the aircraft, we did not worry about Gunships, we did not worry about the Geneva Accords and the Senior Army Leadership philosophical sensitivities.
We did our best to get the wounded out no matter the risk.
We did not always succeed, we lost aircraft and crews, but we went.
Early in the War the "Dustoff" guys stuck to similar silly rules but over time they too embraced the Creed.
A young US Air Force PJ bleed to death waiting over nine hours for a Medevac Helicopter during the Robert's Ridge fight in Afghanistan....and it appears not much has changed in the way the Army does things.
The USAF and USMC arm their aircraft and go get the Wounded.....the Army for some unfathomable reason thinks doing the way this video shows it.....is the right way.....and brave young Soldiers are dying as a result.
Yes....this makes me angry.....our Soldiers deserve far better Leadership than this!
Did military rules cost a soldier his life? - CBS News
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SaSless
I saw that Video a while ago. Not good.
By coincidence, I happened to watch a video of Major Bruce Crandall
talking about Ia Drang Valley and another video where all three pilots
won DFC's even though they went against their superiors orders.
Both were inspiring videos.
I saw that Video a while ago. Not good.
By coincidence, I happened to watch a video of Major Bruce Crandall
talking about Ia Drang Valley and another video where all three pilots
won DFC's even though they went against their superiors orders.
Both were inspiring videos.
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Having served on the Support Helicopter force (a long time ago) the consensus of opinion was they would much rather be armed than have a Red Cross. At least then you could shoot back...
Thread Starter
A discussion of the problem.....and why the US Army Senior Leadership is so fecked up in their thinking!
13-military-pilots-rebuke-the-joint-chiefs-of-staff
Pay particular attention to what the Dust Off Pilots have to say about the situation and compare that to the crap the JCS put out.
13-military-pilots-rebuke-the-joint-chiefs-of-staff
Pay particular attention to what the Dust Off Pilots have to say about the situation and compare that to the crap the JCS put out.
Last edited by SASless; 8th Oct 2013 at 15:15.
