IRA - Can we forgive and forget?
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Forgive and forget
We will never forget , it's impossible to erase some of the images we
all have of wars battles bomb attacks , forgetting is probably not within
Our remit. Forgiving on the other hand is something in our own control,
The recent troubles were very dirty, all sides , more than two sides for sure
out of the dirty mess came some very decent people who somehow got
Most of the guns silenced , thank god for that.
Forgiving will take two or three generations , too early to forgive the
level all sides stooped to in this conflict civilian , military , paramilitary, judiciary.
media , religious orders even politicians, a terrible insight on us humans they way
we can do this to each other, and for what purpose?
all have of wars battles bomb attacks , forgetting is probably not within
Our remit. Forgiving on the other hand is something in our own control,
The recent troubles were very dirty, all sides , more than two sides for sure
out of the dirty mess came some very decent people who somehow got
Most of the guns silenced , thank god for that.
Forgiving will take two or three generations , too early to forgive the
level all sides stooped to in this conflict civilian , military , paramilitary, judiciary.
media , religious orders even politicians, a terrible insight on us humans they way
we can do this to each other, and for what purpose?
Ralph, you must have a very interesting navel. For me navel gazing means a way of accepting atrocities and excusing the perpetrators. For me, all of them were cowardly murdering thugs and that goes for all of them on both sides. It matters not what patriotic name they gave themselves, they were all murderers without conscience.
You see in the eyes of the minority population the Army were on a side and used the law to coverup what ever they did.Where as if the state had acted correctly we wouldn't have had another 30 years of war.
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Cowardly murdering thugs
Yes , agreed but on all sides some even were honoured in buck house, young innocent 18 year olds from England sent to defend the indefensible and forced to
Lie to protect the sandhurst junta who were cowards and panicked when faced with an unarmed civil rights march ! But all sides were equally guilty , only time will heel.
I remember my grandfather telling me of high nelly bike rides with a 303 on his back hiding in bushes waiting for a foreign army to show its face in a rolls
Royce armoured car so he could fire off a few rounds and plug a few of them before they burnt his farmhouse down, every war is the same , evil and inexcusable, we are free now , but we cannot forget, just forgive.
Lie to protect the sandhurst junta who were cowards and panicked when faced with an unarmed civil rights march ! But all sides were equally guilty , only time will heel.
I remember my grandfather telling me of high nelly bike rides with a 303 on his back hiding in bushes waiting for a foreign army to show its face in a rolls
Royce armoured car so he could fire off a few rounds and plug a few of them before they burnt his farmhouse down, every war is the same , evil and inexcusable, we are free now , but we cannot forget, just forgive.
Last edited by Hangar6; 20th Sep 2013 at 21:20.
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So you accept Bloody Sunday and the coverup that occured in th 1970's and excuse the perpetrators ? or because it was done by men in uniform it can be brushed aside ?
You see in the eyes of the minority population the Army were on a side and used the law to coverup what ever they did.Where as if the state had acted correctly we wouldn't have had another 30 years of war.
You see in the eyes of the minority population the Army were on a side and used the law to coverup what ever they did.Where as if the state had acted correctly we wouldn't have had another 30 years of war.
I was there when the Army arrived and their role was to assist the overstretched police in protecting the minority population against protestant militant attacks on the marches in favour of more equality.
It was not long before the "freedom fighters" decided to start attacking the army, first with bricks and petrol bombs and later with firearms. I saw them come back from patrols to their base at BK with ever more serious injuries.
Try not to be confused about who started what and against whom.
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All sides
Yes this is important all sides were evil equally, but maybe one side , perhaps the official representatives of the people should have been well trained and
Disciplined enough with strong leaders to hold the moral high ground and act accordingly but alas they were poorly led, scared cowards from a disunited British army who acted like terrorists , they sunk to the level of their
aversory as always happens in war, Bloody Sunday brought the British army
Down to the level of the IRA , evil cowards intent on mayhem
And destruction and the army caused many years of innocent bloodshed
By their actions, not for the first time did a colonial power
Prolong a pointless conflict ?
Disciplined enough with strong leaders to hold the moral high ground and act accordingly but alas they were poorly led, scared cowards from a disunited British army who acted like terrorists , they sunk to the level of their
aversory as always happens in war, Bloody Sunday brought the British army
Down to the level of the IRA , evil cowards intent on mayhem
And destruction and the army caused many years of innocent bloodshed
By their actions, not for the first time did a colonial power
Prolong a pointless conflict ?
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I remember my grandfather telling me of high nelly bike rides with a 303 on his back hiding in bushes waiting for a foreign army to show its face in a rolls Royce armoured car so he could fire off a few rounds and plug a few of them before they burnt his farmhouse down, every war is the same , evil and inexcusable, we are free now , but we cannot forget, just forgive.
Your age is 53 so your grandfather, if alive, would be somewhere in the region of 115 years old. In 1916 he would have been about 18 and in that case he would have been fighting an entirely different war to justifiably become an independent Ireland.
Forgive me saying I find your post a little reminiscent of the old songs about those days, I know the words to most of them.
Last edited by Shack37; 20th Sep 2013 at 21:42.
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East clare brigade
You can read about him, pm me and I will fax te book pages or enlighten yourself and buy the book, a good read , he was in prison with Eamon Dev, went on hunger strike , escaped by bribing the Scottish army guards and lived to a ripe old age,
Oddly enuf my father was RAMC LT COl and served in NI
So I have a rounded perspective on the evils that all sides were party to.
Oddly enuf my father was RAMC LT COl and served in NI
So I have a rounded perspective on the evils that all sides were party to.
Last edited by Hangar6; 20th Sep 2013 at 21:49.
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Shack37:
I spent a couple or three years serving with a man who was there. Sober as a judge and so rat-faced he was incapable of lying his story never changed. The crowd escalated and escalated until they came under fire. He claims he never fired but only because he couldn't identify a target in the crowd. He was always adamant that the first shots came from his front. He was a Scouse, and I trust him...
I spent a couple or three years serving with a man who was there. Sober as a judge and so rat-faced he was incapable of lying his story never changed. The crowd escalated and escalated until they came under fire. He claims he never fired but only because he couldn't identify a target in the crowd. He was always adamant that the first shots came from his front. He was a Scouse, and I trust him...
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You can read about him, pm me and I will fax te book pages or enlighten
yourself and buy the book, a good read , he was in prison with Eamon Dev, went on hunger strike , escaped by bribing the Scottish army guards and lived to a ripe old age, Oddly enuf my father was RAMC LT COl and served in NI So I have a rounded perspective on the evils that all sides were party to.
yourself and buy the book, a good read , he was in prison with Eamon Dev, went on hunger strike , escaped by bribing the Scottish army guards and lived to a ripe old age, Oddly enuf my father was RAMC LT COl and served in NI So I have a rounded perspective on the evils that all sides were party to.
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Forgive
Shack , all I am saying is it was a black evil time, anyone who was involved at that time on the ground who claims the morale high ground is on a sticky wicket as they say! Lets not forget but aye forgive,,,,,in time , give it 50 years,
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Dublin general
No such place but I take your point you are happy to believe and accept your view of events that's fine , no harm in that , I have enjoyed your comments, pm me if you want the book.
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Dublin general
Hangar6
Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit intended. PM me the book title or you're grandad's name and I'll do some googalong.
No such place but I take your point you are happy to believe and accept your view of events that's fine , no harm in that , I have enjoyed your comments, pm me if you want the book.
Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit intended. PM me the book title or you're grandad's name and I'll do some googalong.
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AA
I think we probably agree on more subjects than not.
I think we probably agree on more subjects than not.
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Book title Blood on the Banner
Banner being the name for a county in ROI , Co Clare,
mercer press , William McNamara being my grandfather on the bike against
The rolls Royce in a wee place called Cratloe , he won that one but lost the next
One c'est le Guerre !
mercer press , William McNamara being my grandfather on the bike against
The rolls Royce in a wee place called Cratloe , he won that one but lost the next
One c'est le Guerre !
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Perhaps... But the way we manage to disagree makes me lean towards you being a troll or an idiot... Which is it?
My personal opinion is hardly likely to put me in either category. To make you're own decision you would need to know me personally or talk to people who do.
As this is unlikely to happen since visits to the US is no longer on my agenda I can only say that I have always tried to treat others as I hope they would treat me. Maybe a little naïve but has worked for me to date.
I am not against personal self defence and have no problem in supporting anyone who has need to use it, up to and including the use of firearms.
What I find objectionable is that someone/anyone can derive pleasure from killing another animate being, however necessary it may be. For me this applies as much to vermin as it does to the assholes who are happy to kill a beautiful stag just to hang it's head on a wall.
It is necessary to keep vermin, rats etc under control but to get pleasure from the act of killing is, for me, a big no no.
Idiot or Troll? Make your own assessment.
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Shack:
We agree here... I wouldn't kill an animal to put it's head on a wall.. There are those that do "trophies"... That's fine if the meat is properly used. To kill an animal for sport without a proper use of the animal after it's death, to me, is an utter waste..
I will hunt soon... I will use the entire animal...
The head has two possible outcomes... If I shoot the head it's not going to be acceptable hanging on the wall.... If I take the center body shot the wife won't want the bloody head hanging in the house anyway... I lose both ways...
When I decide to hunt, bearing in mind I have numerous grocery stores within a mile or so of my house so food isn't hard to come by, I'll hunt to make my own food... Because it's fun to do so...
Ever made you own sausage, bacon, ham?
For me this applies as much to vermin as it does to the assholes who are happy to kill a beautiful stag just to hang it's head on a wall.
I will hunt soon... I will use the entire animal...
The head has two possible outcomes... If I shoot the head it's not going to be acceptable hanging on the wall.... If I take the center body shot the wife won't want the bloody head hanging in the house anyway... I lose both ways...
When I decide to hunt, bearing in mind I have numerous grocery stores within a mile or so of my house so food isn't hard to come by, I'll hunt to make my own food... Because it's fun to do so...
Ever made you own sausage, bacon, ham?