Four Medals of Honor.....Two Sad Days!
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Glojo
I think you need to read some of the write ups on line
and possibly Meyers book.
Especially regarding who "they" were you suggest were not in the loop.
CAS was NOT available for the mission and they knew that beforehand
but AH on 5 minutes call were available from nearby but when requested,
were tied up in another contact. When they did turn up it helped turn the
battle. Arty support was on call.
The only other thing is, this was not a quick battle, I think it
lasted 9 hours in total. You can't tell me that a Commander
can under estimate the contact if it is going on for 9 hours ???
I think you need to read some of the write ups on line
and possibly Meyers book.
Especially regarding who "they" were you suggest were not in the loop.
CAS was NOT available for the mission and they knew that beforehand
but AH on 5 minutes call were available from nearby but when requested,
were tied up in another contact. When they did turn up it helped turn the
battle. Arty support was on call.
The only other thing is, this was not a quick battle, I think it
lasted 9 hours in total. You can't tell me that a Commander
can under estimate the contact if it is going on for 9 hours ???
Thread Starter
The Letters of Reprimand certainly killed their Careers.....and rightfully so.
How many incredibly bad decisions made by commanders way up the Chain do we have to experience before we realize the Troops in Contact have the best view of what they need to survive an engagement?
Some Air Force ex-C-130 pilot in Oman is not equipped to make the decision on whether an Army Medevac Helicopter flies to Troops in Contact in remote Afghanistan. That has happened before and Jason Cunningham bled to death waiting for the helicopter that finally arrived nine hours after he was wounded at Takur Ghar on what became known as Robert's Ridge.
That a separate SF chain of command was directly observing the engagement from nearby locations and was telling the Air Force commander it was safe as were the engaged troops.....makes it all the more problematical.
ROE's are there to protect non-combatants......firepower is there to save our own Troops who are engaged in combat with an armed enemy. Our Troops come first in my view....and should be given as much support as is possible. That way the Bad Guys know they shall (imperative tense) get hit by overwhelming firepower every time they attack our forces. How else do we convince them to stay home and drink their Tea?
How many incredibly bad decisions made by commanders way up the Chain do we have to experience before we realize the Troops in Contact have the best view of what they need to survive an engagement?
Some Air Force ex-C-130 pilot in Oman is not equipped to make the decision on whether an Army Medevac Helicopter flies to Troops in Contact in remote Afghanistan. That has happened before and Jason Cunningham bled to death waiting for the helicopter that finally arrived nine hours after he was wounded at Takur Ghar on what became known as Robert's Ridge.
That a separate SF chain of command was directly observing the engagement from nearby locations and was telling the Air Force commander it was safe as were the engaged troops.....makes it all the more problematical.
ROE's are there to protect non-combatants......firepower is there to save our own Troops who are engaged in combat with an armed enemy. Our Troops come first in my view....and should be given as much support as is possible. That way the Bad Guys know they shall (imperative tense) get hit by overwhelming firepower every time they attack our forces. How else do we convince them to stay home and drink their Tea?
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Back to the MOH winners... in previously-unreleased video from the soldiers' helmet-cams, Captain Swenson shows why he risked himself that day.
Medal of Honor winner shows bravery, tenderness - CBS News
Medal of Honor winner shows bravery, tenderness - CBS News
Sgt. First Class Kenneth Westbrook had been hit in the throat and was bleeding to death. Swenson and a medic helped Westbrook to the helicopter. Then, amid the hell of combat, something beautiful happened.
"Sgt. Westbrook kind of leaned down and Capt. Swenson kind of leaned down and they had, they kind of looked at each other and it appeared that they were talking, but Capt. Swenson kissed him on the forehead and then tapped the side of his head," said Sgt. Kevin Duerst of the California National Guard, the crew chief of a medevac helicopter that flew into the valley.
Stop the action and you can see it clearly.
"It was the brotherhood," Duerst said. "It was your buddy is getting put onto a medevac helicopter and you're going to have to wait to see him for a couple hours. He's going to go back to the hospital and when you're done with your battle, then you'll see him."
But Swenson never saw Westbrook again. The medevac got him to a field hospital in time for a life-saving transfusion, but 29 days later he died of complications.
"This guy had four broken ribs, a punctured lung, a shattered left shoulder," said Westbrook's widow, Charlene Westbrook. "He had a shot on his neck which went through his aorta so he was bleeding pretty heavily."
She did not see this video of her husband's final battle -- did not even know it existed -- until the medevac crew presented it to her this spring.
"The first time I watched it was so emotional and I just, I cried," she said. "It was the hardest thing to watch."
After loading Westbrook aboard the medevac, Swenson went back into the battle. When Deurst and his medevac team returned to pick up more casualties, they found Swenson further up the valley, even more exposed to enemy fire, aiding wounded Afghan soldiers and searching for four missing Americans.
"He did things that nobody else would ever do and he did it for his guys and for everybody on the ground, to get them out," Duerst said.
Duerst's medevac left before Swenson performed his final act of courage -- going forward under fire to recover the bodies of those four missing Americans.
The army's official account makes no mention of the kiss Swenson gave his doomed sergeant. But that one act explains everything about why soldiers fight. They fight for each other.
"Sgt. Westbrook kind of leaned down and Capt. Swenson kind of leaned down and they had, they kind of looked at each other and it appeared that they were talking, but Capt. Swenson kissed him on the forehead and then tapped the side of his head," said Sgt. Kevin Duerst of the California National Guard, the crew chief of a medevac helicopter that flew into the valley.
Stop the action and you can see it clearly.
"It was the brotherhood," Duerst said. "It was your buddy is getting put onto a medevac helicopter and you're going to have to wait to see him for a couple hours. He's going to go back to the hospital and when you're done with your battle, then you'll see him."
But Swenson never saw Westbrook again. The medevac got him to a field hospital in time for a life-saving transfusion, but 29 days later he died of complications.
"This guy had four broken ribs, a punctured lung, a shattered left shoulder," said Westbrook's widow, Charlene Westbrook. "He had a shot on his neck which went through his aorta so he was bleeding pretty heavily."
She did not see this video of her husband's final battle -- did not even know it existed -- until the medevac crew presented it to her this spring.
"The first time I watched it was so emotional and I just, I cried," she said. "It was the hardest thing to watch."
After loading Westbrook aboard the medevac, Swenson went back into the battle. When Deurst and his medevac team returned to pick up more casualties, they found Swenson further up the valley, even more exposed to enemy fire, aiding wounded Afghan soldiers and searching for four missing Americans.
"He did things that nobody else would ever do and he did it for his guys and for everybody on the ground, to get them out," Duerst said.
Duerst's medevac left before Swenson performed his final act of courage -- going forward under fire to recover the bodies of those four missing Americans.
The army's official account makes no mention of the kiss Swenson gave his doomed sergeant. But that one act explains everything about why soldiers fight. They fight for each other.
Originally Posted by John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 20th Sep 2013 at 08:41.
Thread Starter
Sadly,
There are a great number of similar acts that go unrewarded.
We are blessed to have such Men who will stand up when needed.
US Army Aviation's Motto is "Above the Best".....meaning the "Best" are the guys on the ground taking the fight to the enemy.
There are a great number of similar acts that go unrewarded.
We are blessed to have such Men who will stand up when needed.
US Army Aviation's Motto is "Above the Best".....meaning the "Best" are the guys on the ground taking the fight to the enemy.
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Not so.
If you type into the search bar 'S/Sgt Meyer' you will find as much as you want to watch including the presentation at the White House yesterday.
Beware! Its all very moving and VERY much a fitting tribute to a man who went back back FIVE times to rescue his mates when he was only 21. A real hero.
Captain Swenson is next and I look forward to that. I rather fancy there is some disgrace about that is going to be hard to hide.
PPP
If you type into the search bar 'S/Sgt Meyer' you will find as much as you want to watch including the presentation at the White House yesterday.
Beware! Its all very moving and VERY much a fitting tribute to a man who went back back FIVE times to rescue his mates when he was only 21. A real hero.
Captain Swenson is next and I look forward to that. I rather fancy there is some disgrace about that is going to be hard to hide.
PPP
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Presentation
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"Captain Swenson is next and I look forward to that."
Agree. Especially since Meyer made the case in his book.
"I rather fancy there is some disgrace about that is going to be hard to hide."
Possibly, although reading around it seems the dirty laundry
has been aired already by very senior people so maybe no need
to mention it at the ceremony ?
Still hard to believe they "lost" the paperwork
Agree. Especially since Meyer made the case in his book.
"I rather fancy there is some disgrace about that is going to be hard to hide."
Possibly, although reading around it seems the dirty laundry
has been aired already by very senior people so maybe no need
to mention it at the ceremony ?
Still hard to believe they "lost" the paperwork
Last edited by 500N; 20th Sep 2013 at 21:10.
Thread Starter
Afghan translator of Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer caught in bureaucratic limbo | Washington Free Beacon
This is how we treat courageous Afghani's who also do some heroic things in support of our Soldiers and Marines.
This is how we treat courageous Afghani's who also do some heroic things in support of our Soldiers and Marines.
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SaSless
Isn't the State department a law unto itself ?
That's the way it has always seemed to me
as well as always protecting their castle.
You would think that with all those recommendations
someone would have flagged it as being important.
Isn't the State department a law unto itself ?
That's the way it has always seemed to me
as well as always protecting their castle.
You would think that with all those recommendations
someone would have flagged it as being important.
Thread Starter
Two USMC Generals Forcibly Retired!
The Attack on Camp Bastion that resulted in the killing of two Marines and the destruction of six Harriers has caused two USMC Generals to be Retired.
2 generals forced to retire for Afghan breach
2 generals forced to retire for Afghan breach
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Kudos to General Amos for that.
Maj. Gen. Charles M. Gurganus in particular sounds like he went "ROAD".
ROAD = Retired On Active Duty... and is Marine slang for someone who stops doing his job long before his actual retirement date.
Maj. Gen. Charles M. Gurganus in particular sounds like he went "ROAD".
ROAD = Retired On Active Duty... and is Marine slang for someone who stops doing his job long before his actual retirement date.
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1983 on my B767maintenance course the EICAS instructor was a MOH recipient, Joe Jackson . He earned his in Vietnam flying C123's. Reading his citation gives you a good insight into flying in those days. A true gentleman, and I believe still going strong, retired of course!
Thread Starter
CMOHS.org - Lieutenant Colonel JACKSON, JOE M., U.S. Air Force
One of the Air Force Combat Controllers that Jackson hauled out that day was Mort Friedman who I knew in the Philippines. Mort was the Senior NCO in the Combat Control Unit at Clark AFB.
We did a lot of scuba diving together and shared many a Pint.
A real Warrior he was.
Mort?s Rescue at Kham Duc | Flying in Crosswinds
The Chinooks mentioned in the article belonged to my first Chinook Unit....the 178th Boxcars based out of Chu Lai AFB.
One of the Air Force Combat Controllers that Jackson hauled out that day was Mort Friedman who I knew in the Philippines. Mort was the Senior NCO in the Combat Control Unit at Clark AFB.
We did a lot of scuba diving together and shared many a Pint.
A real Warrior he was.
Mort?s Rescue at Kham Duc | Flying in Crosswinds
The Chinooks mentioned in the article belonged to my first Chinook Unit....the 178th Boxcars based out of Chu Lai AFB.
Last edited by SASless; 1st Oct 2013 at 18:00.
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And now its the turn ofCaptain William Swenson
At a ceremony former Captain William Swenson was bestowed his Medal of Honor at the White House.
Video footage captured from cameras mounted on the helmets of the helicopter pilots showed Captain Swenson delivering a severely wounded soldier to the helicopter and placing a kiss on his head.
Captain Swenson has asked to return to active duty, and the Army is working to allow it.
Makes one feel good that people like William Swenson live on this planet of ours. There are many more to come - no doubt. But how did his 'application' get lost?
WASHINGTON: Obama to award ‘lost’ Medal of Honor to former Army captain | White House | McClatchy DC
Video footage captured from cameras mounted on the helmets of the helicopter pilots showed Captain Swenson delivering a severely wounded soldier to the helicopter and placing a kiss on his head.
Captain Swenson has asked to return to active duty, and the Army is working to allow it.
Makes one feel good that people like William Swenson live on this planet of ours. There are many more to come - no doubt. But how did his 'application' get lost?
WASHINGTON: Obama to award ‘lost’ Medal of Honor to former Army captain | White House | McClatchy DC
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"The Army captain left the military in February 2011 and has since been unemployed. Swenson hopes to return to service, a rare move for a Medal recipient. His request is currently under review.
Is it strange that an Army Officer with a good service record can't get a job in the US for 2 years ?
Is it strange that an Army Officer with a good service record can't get a job in the US for 2 years ?
Thread Starter
Despite the Media and Obama's claims....things are not very good for returning Veterans currently.
Combat Infantry skill sets do not transfer well into the civilian market place.
The guy is in his late 30's returning from Afghanistan and having to seek out employment with no recent experience in a particular trade, profession, or skill.
Tis always been thus.....and always shall be.
The Army cutting 80,000 Soldiers to meet budget cuts.....even they are very slow in hiring.....or re-hiring. They are looking for reasons to cut folks and just trying to re-enlist while already on Active Duty is not assured.
Obama Economic policies and the Congress being useless in all regards is causing lots of problems.
Add in the negative effect Obamacare is having on the Employment decisions of businesses and it really gets hard for anyone to find a good paying FULL TIME job.
Combat Infantry skill sets do not transfer well into the civilian market place.
The guy is in his late 30's returning from Afghanistan and having to seek out employment with no recent experience in a particular trade, profession, or skill.
Tis always been thus.....and always shall be.
The Army cutting 80,000 Soldiers to meet budget cuts.....even they are very slow in hiring.....or re-hiring. They are looking for reasons to cut folks and just trying to re-enlist while already on Active Duty is not assured.
Obama Economic policies and the Congress being useless in all regards is causing lots of problems.
Add in the negative effect Obamacare is having on the Employment decisions of businesses and it really gets hard for anyone to find a good paying FULL TIME job.
Thread Starter
Who writes and signs these Letters from Obama to the Parents of our Military who are Killed in Action?
No wonder the letter got returned as it did!
Dear Steve
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"Who writes and signs these Letters"
Unlike the previous Sec of Def, this was probably signed by a machine.
Re the two MOH's, Meyer and Swenson, the way that article read it came across to me that Meyer was incorrectly given the MOH and the US Mil are investigating it.
Am I mis reading it ?
Unlike the previous Sec of Def, this was probably signed by a machine.
Re the two MOH's, Meyer and Swenson, the way that article read it came across to me that Meyer was incorrectly given the MOH and the US Mil are investigating it.
Am I mis reading it ?
