MPA/SAR Hercules patrolling the Falklands
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That was when, and only then, that the VC10s deigned to get involved in the FI detachment and took over 1312 - it was rather a case of the 10s being permitted to join the remaining Albert on 1312 than the other way round.
As for being 'permitted' - thanks.
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Now here's a thought.............
DSEi: BAe 146 offered as tactical air-to-air refueller
Surely cheaper to run than Voyager.
Hope the Tristar is a success down there. Was a bit worried when asked by a member of the Project Team if there was "hangar space" for a Tristar at MPA!! Perhaps if they'd blown the dust of that file lying in the corner of the office..........
DSEi: BAe 146 offered as tactical air-to-air refueller
Surely cheaper to run than Voyager.
Hope the Tristar is a success down there. Was a bit worried when asked by a member of the Project Team if there was "hangar space" for a Tristar at MPA!! Perhaps if they'd blown the dust of that file lying in the corner of the office..........
Yet again 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space is trying to peddle a pretty useless 5-APU tanker derivative....
You want a modern, tactical tanker-transport with an 18+ tonne offload? Try the Embraer KC-390, which will have 2 wing AAR pods, something which 't Bungling Baron's team seem to have overlooked:
You want a modern, tactical tanker-transport with an 18+ tonne offload? Try the Embraer KC-390, which will have 2 wing AAR pods, something which 't Bungling Baron's team seem to have overlooked:
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BAe also have their fingers in the KC-390 pie too.
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Reading the article, with the throw-away comment about maritime surveillance, you can see exactly what BAE have in mind.
Genuine question: was a KC-130 style modification of some RAF Hercs ever seriously considered to replace the C.1K? And if not, why?
Genuine question: was a KC-130 style modification of some RAF Hercs ever seriously considered to replace the C.1K? And if not, why?
Yes, the short C-130Js were bought with AAR in mind. As the money got tight and the requirement (driven by Chinook and Merlin, with an ability for tactical FJ) became less pressing the funding was removed as a savings measure.
I have nothing but praise for the Stanley C130 tankers; they were always where they should have been, when they were supposed to be there. Adaptability and flexibility were always available in abundance when needed, they never let me down.
Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
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Busta, Many thanks, lovely to know that our efforts were appreciated . Still can't watch Life of Brian without thinking of all that went on during my 4 months in 85.
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I recollect a particularly miserable, wet dark morning at MPA in 1988. I guess it was around 25 May as we had all been briefed about the increased threat.
Anyway, Byron and/or Alice were doing their usually good job and a mandatory launch was ordered by Kent. 1312 were most definitely the first in the sky, closely followed by two F4s of 23 Sqn. Our side of things stood up and we then waited, a long time. The second tanker went (I don't recollect there being three airframes at MPA but could be mistaken) as the first returned having seen the lights at 200ft....... ish. A very quick turnaround and that tanker went off again.
It must have been sometime after lunch that the packet of two F4s and two C130s finally came back for a full stop. The F4s must have been up for at least 8 hrs and the C130s had been in support throughout.
In my quarter if a century in the RAF this was one of the moments where teamwork drove the day. Could the VC10 have done the same? Probably. However and without doubt, the Albert proved its worth and capability in such an environment. Some weeks later I had the pleasure of flying in one of the C130s on a South Georgia mail drop; quite a versatile aircraft.
PS. I'm pretty sure that a C130 Orange Crop pod must have had a nightly close look at tarmac as the first aircraft rounded the rather tight corner between the ATC taxiway and RW23.
Anyway, Byron and/or Alice were doing their usually good job and a mandatory launch was ordered by Kent. 1312 were most definitely the first in the sky, closely followed by two F4s of 23 Sqn. Our side of things stood up and we then waited, a long time. The second tanker went (I don't recollect there being three airframes at MPA but could be mistaken) as the first returned having seen the lights at 200ft....... ish. A very quick turnaround and that tanker went off again.
It must have been sometime after lunch that the packet of two F4s and two C130s finally came back for a full stop. The F4s must have been up for at least 8 hrs and the C130s had been in support throughout.
In my quarter if a century in the RAF this was one of the moments where teamwork drove the day. Could the VC10 have done the same? Probably. However and without doubt, the Albert proved its worth and capability in such an environment. Some weeks later I had the pleasure of flying in one of the C130s on a South Georgia mail drop; quite a versatile aircraft.
PS. I'm pretty sure that a C130 Orange Crop pod must have had a nightly close look at tarmac as the first aircraft rounded the rather tight corner between the ATC taxiway and RW23.
Last edited by Cows getting bigger; 13th Sep 2013 at 18:04.
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c130 AAR
I started to become annoyed at this thread. I know it is just a bit of banter. for those interested enough in facts you may wish to read the history of AAR by Dick Tanner MBE. good detail on the development of the Herc during the Falklands and thereafter. What an achievement for the guys at FRL and Marshall.
You can find the book at P&S on special offer at the moment £8. I think I paid £25 for my copy some time back but only got round to reading it recently stimulated by some other threads on here.
I visited Cambridge a couple of times in 82 to fit some other stuff to the 130. I thought it was going on the tanker we used for the TI but apparently it went on another frame (discussed elsewhere on PPRuNe).
At the time we were desperate for such. The installation was the best that could be done in the available time. It may not have been absolutely perfect but don't knock it.
in 2000 and something the C130J IPT at ABW did have a tanker programme. this was dissolved when the programme was cancelled. Not sure why. The J now operating down there can fly much further than the K. Not sure where the one with the tanks fitted is these days. the tanks were removable. This element started out under the LRDI programme which morphed into something else. I am sure you can read about it on the Lockheed HOC web site. a couple of years back ASRA was cleared on the J specifically to go South along with some other mission avionics for MPA.
I do hope the picture above is photo shopped. It still gives me the willys thinking of Pvt Game at Cerney. It's just not that funny.
You can find the book at P&S on special offer at the moment £8. I think I paid £25 for my copy some time back but only got round to reading it recently stimulated by some other threads on here.
I visited Cambridge a couple of times in 82 to fit some other stuff to the 130. I thought it was going on the tanker we used for the TI but apparently it went on another frame (discussed elsewhere on PPRuNe).
At the time we were desperate for such. The installation was the best that could be done in the available time. It may not have been absolutely perfect but don't knock it.
in 2000 and something the C130J IPT at ABW did have a tanker programme. this was dissolved when the programme was cancelled. Not sure why. The J now operating down there can fly much further than the K. Not sure where the one with the tanks fitted is these days. the tanks were removable. This element started out under the LRDI programme which morphed into something else. I am sure you can read about it on the Lockheed HOC web site. a couple of years back ASRA was cleared on the J specifically to go South along with some other mission avionics for MPA.
I do hope the picture above is photo shopped. It still gives me the willys thinking of Pvt Game at Cerney. It's just not that funny.
dragartist,
as you rightly say the Herc tanker fit was the best solution in the time available. It demonstrated what could be done in the hour of need. Yes it was a bit of a ' parts bin lash up' but it soldiered on well until the mid nineties. Our biggest problem as operators of the Herc tanker was the Marham tanker mafia who found it difficult to understand that Herc tanking was in many ways very different to Victor tanking. The a/c could and did so many things the Victor could not- and vice versa. I do not recall ever seeing anyone from the Marham Tanker Staneval on one of our a/c. Given that one of their many edicts was that we were all to be sat down and strapped in whilst dispensing fuel (impossible for the ALM and Nav) I have no doubt that if one did fly with us he may have thought us 'gash'. There were many other items I will not bore you with. But it is also oft forgotten that the standard 'prodding' training in the early days that a captain would receive would consist of a few dry prods and then it was off to do it for real. No pressure then.
as you rightly say the Herc tanker fit was the best solution in the time available. It demonstrated what could be done in the hour of need. Yes it was a bit of a ' parts bin lash up' but it soldiered on well until the mid nineties. Our biggest problem as operators of the Herc tanker was the Marham tanker mafia who found it difficult to understand that Herc tanking was in many ways very different to Victor tanking. The a/c could and did so many things the Victor could not- and vice versa. I do not recall ever seeing anyone from the Marham Tanker Staneval on one of our a/c. Given that one of their many edicts was that we were all to be sat down and strapped in whilst dispensing fuel (impossible for the ALM and Nav) I have no doubt that if one did fly with us he may have thought us 'gash'. There were many other items I will not bore you with. But it is also oft forgotten that the standard 'prodding' training in the early days that a captain would receive would consist of a few dry prods and then it was off to do it for real. No pressure then.
AA62
I am pretty sure I did a wet prod in the UK before heading south (I am away from home so can't check). However all my prods were behind a Vulcan because there were no Victors available in the UK. There was so much pressure to get C130K crews trained, we were told that we would be OK when we got there and to "Man up". At least when I got to Ascension, I was able to arrange to meet a returning Victor and do a couple of dry prods before having to do it for real the next day.
I am pretty sure I did a wet prod in the UK before heading south (I am away from home so can't check). However all my prods were behind a Vulcan because there were no Victors available in the UK. There was so much pressure to get C130K crews trained, we were told that we would be OK when we got there and to "Man up". At least when I got to Ascension, I was able to arrange to meet a returning Victor and do a couple of dry prods before having to do it for real the next day.
Dragartist,
I'm pretty sure the picture I posted is photoshopped. I apologise if you find it offensive, I can assure you I'm well aware of the event you mention and never meant to associate this with the said event. Having said that, from experience, if you believe that C130 crews didn't do low fly byes, like every other type in RAF service then you are deluding yourself. If you wish I will delete the post in question, it was meant in jest to a previous post, and as such is of no consequence to me. Please let me know and I will comply.
Smudge
I'm pretty sure the picture I posted is photoshopped. I apologise if you find it offensive, I can assure you I'm well aware of the event you mention and never meant to associate this with the said event. Having said that, from experience, if you believe that C130 crews didn't do low fly byes, like every other type in RAF service then you are deluding yourself. If you wish I will delete the post in question, it was meant in jest to a previous post, and as such is of no consequence to me. Please let me know and I will comply.
Smudge
....for those interested enough in facts you may wish to read the history of AAR by Dick Tanner MBE. Good detail on the development of the Herc during the Falklands and thereafter. What an achievement for the guys at FRL and Marshall.
Unfortunately, much of the rest is rather less so. ''Tech. heavy', riddled with errors of detail and some very, very poor diagrams which are almost illegible. Very little about the history of AAR, but a fair bit about the history of AAR equipment. For example, I found the F-84 Thunderjet electrical system somewhat less than fascinating....
Nevertheless, when 'can do' was needed, Marshall and FRL managed the C-130K tanker and receiver programme in remarkably short timescales, both of which are well chronicled.
I have nothing but praise for the Stanley C130 tankers; they were always where they should have been, when they were supposed to be there.
(Grateful receiver, Dec 82-Mar 83 and Oct 83)
Last edited by wiggy; 14th Sep 2013 at 20:56.
Glad you appreciate its versatility & particularly its availability 
It was a lnightmare to keep the HDU serviceable,we worked our nuts off !
Still have nightmares about setting up the liquid clutch, with background music provided buy a clicking Ledex
It was a lnightmare to keep the HDU serviceable,we worked our nuts off !
Still have nightmares about setting up the liquid clutch, with background music provided buy a clicking Ledex
WIDN62,
your single wet prod before being despatched south proves my more general point that the level of training in extremis was of necessity short indeed.
The learning curve for all was vertical.
I think everyone connected with the Herc tanker, from Marshalls to the maintainers did an excellent job keeping it going for as long as it did. We only had six a/c total, two of which were always down south. Out of the remaining four we had perhaps two 'goers' at any one time. It was amusing to get signals addressed to the Lyneham Tanker Wing !
The tanker was operated at well over the normal T/O weights and as I recall Lockheed refused to supply fatigue data as these 'overload ' weights were not meant for everyday use. Marshalls, as the European Design Authority had to produce their own. Seemed to work as at least one decommissioned tanker was sold to a foreign airforce.
your single wet prod before being despatched south proves my more general point that the level of training in extremis was of necessity short indeed.
The learning curve for all was vertical.
I think everyone connected with the Herc tanker, from Marshalls to the maintainers did an excellent job keeping it going for as long as it did. We only had six a/c total, two of which were always down south. Out of the remaining four we had perhaps two 'goers' at any one time. It was amusing to get signals addressed to the Lyneham Tanker Wing !
The tanker was operated at well over the normal T/O weights and as I recall Lockheed refused to supply fatigue data as these 'overload ' weights were not meant for everyday use. Marshalls, as the European Design Authority had to produce their own. Seemed to work as at least one decommissioned tanker was sold to a foreign airforce.