WWI - Losers ask Winners not to Celebrate
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Why wouldn't we celebrate the slaughter of an entire generation and successfully creating the conditions for the rise of fascism in Germany? There was no "victory", just a pause in the great death machine that snuffed out the lives of millions on the whim of brainless politicians and spineless Generals. As much as I despise the EU and everything it stands for, at least arguing in Brussels over whether or not I can buy a bent banana is more morally uplifting and a lot safer than the participating in the genocide of nations.
Nearly a quarter of a millenia later, just about every single American remembers the principle of why the War of Independence was fought and won. I doubt very much if many Europeans remember how WW1 even started, never mind why it was fought.
We celebrate winning our Freedom from an oppressive government....
Last edited by Two's in; 19th Aug 2013 at 17:20.
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Excellently put, two's in. We started the war as the most wealthy country on the planet with a huge empire and ended broke, having lost nearly a
Million of our finest. Anyone who calls that "winning" needs their head looking at, or at least a major history lesson.
Million of our finest. Anyone who calls that "winning" needs their head looking at, or at least a major history lesson.
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Yep, similar to WW2, we turned down having Volkswagen as part of our war reparations, look where the UK car industry is today and that of Volkswagen.
No one wins in a war, one side just loses less than the other.
..
No one wins in a war, one side just loses less than the other.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Aug 2013 at 18:47.
Two,
I very strongly differ.....very damn few actually remember much less understand. If they did we would not have the situation extant where the Federal Government has centralized as much power as it has at the great expense of the States and most importantly the People.
Very damn few Americans understand the People granted certain very limited powers to the Federal Government, that the Constitution and Bill of Rights most important purpose was to protect the People, the Individual, from Government.
Mark Levin on Hannity the other night laid it out in plain simple concepts what has happened to the original principles over the years and it has not been good.
In his latest book he makes some very good points.
One example.....why should the Supreme Court operate on a simple majority vote? Why should one unelected lawyer be able to shift the way we live our lives.....why not a super majority so that it takes a greater majority of Justices to agree on these earth shaking decisions? Would that not make it much harder for the Court to over rule long standing Law and more likely conform to the consensus of the American People? Look back at all of the "controversial" decisions.....and almost every single one of them was a 5/4 Vote. Would they have been "Controversial" if it had taken a super majority for such decisions?
I very strongly differ.....very damn few actually remember much less understand. If they did we would not have the situation extant where the Federal Government has centralized as much power as it has at the great expense of the States and most importantly the People.
Very damn few Americans understand the People granted certain very limited powers to the Federal Government, that the Constitution and Bill of Rights most important purpose was to protect the People, the Individual, from Government.
Mark Levin on Hannity the other night laid it out in plain simple concepts what has happened to the original principles over the years and it has not been good.
In his latest book he makes some very good points.
One example.....why should the Supreme Court operate on a simple majority vote? Why should one unelected lawyer be able to shift the way we live our lives.....why not a super majority so that it takes a greater majority of Justices to agree on these earth shaking decisions? Would that not make it much harder for the Court to over rule long standing Law and more likely conform to the consensus of the American People? Look back at all of the "controversial" decisions.....and almost every single one of them was a 5/4 Vote. Would they have been "Controversial" if it had taken a super majority for such decisions?
Last edited by SASless; 19th Aug 2013 at 19:16.
If you want to remember a "victory" over the Germans, I suggest the 1966 World Cup final has its attractions. As for the Great War and WW2, our remembrance should be reserved for the people who sacrificed themselves to allow us to exercise what we are doing. The German mischief is not the first time they've done it. I think they feel a bit "left out" maybe. Perhaps the result of coming second 
Smudge
Smudge
Something the Germans and Brits have in common....against the Yanks!
cel·e·brate [sel-uh-breyt] Show IPA verb, cel·e·brat·ed, cel·e·brat·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to observe (a day) or commemorate (an event) with ceremonies or festivities: to celebrate Christmas; to celebrate the success of a new play.
2.
to make known publicly; proclaim: The newspaper celebrated the end of the war in red headlines.
3.
to praise widely or to present to widespread and favorable public notice, as through newspapers or novels: a novel celebrating the joys of marriage; the countryside celebrated in the novels of Hardy.
4.
to perform with appropriate rites and ceremonies; solemnize: to celebrate a marriage.
verb (used without object)
5.
to observe a day or commemorate an event with ceremonies or festivities.
6.
to perform a religious ceremony, especially Mass or the Lord's Supper.
7.
to have or participate in a party, drinking spree, or uninhibited good time: You look like you were up celebrating all night.
I CELEBRATE MY COUNTRY'S VICTORY OVER TOTALITARIANISM IN TWO WORLD WARS, AND THE SACRIFICE OF LIFE AND/OR YOUTH OF MY GRANDFATHER, MY FATHER, AND MY WIFE'S GRANDFATHER.
RIP
verb (used with object)
1.
to observe (a day) or commemorate (an event) with ceremonies or festivities: to celebrate Christmas; to celebrate the success of a new play.
2.
to make known publicly; proclaim: The newspaper celebrated the end of the war in red headlines.
3.
to praise widely or to present to widespread and favorable public notice, as through newspapers or novels: a novel celebrating the joys of marriage; the countryside celebrated in the novels of Hardy.
4.
to perform with appropriate rites and ceremonies; solemnize: to celebrate a marriage.
verb (used without object)
5.
to observe a day or commemorate an event with ceremonies or festivities.
6.
to perform a religious ceremony, especially Mass or the Lord's Supper.
7.
to have or participate in a party, drinking spree, or uninhibited good time: You look like you were up celebrating all night.
I CELEBRATE MY COUNTRY'S VICTORY OVER TOTALITARIANISM IN TWO WORLD WARS, AND THE SACRIFICE OF LIFE AND/OR YOUTH OF MY GRANDFATHER, MY FATHER, AND MY WIFE'S GRANDFATHER.
RIP
Langleybaston,
All points well made and fully supported.
Smudge
With respect, not often a Metman gets it right!
All points well made and fully supported.
Smudge
With respect, not often a Metman gets it right!
Last edited by smujsmith; 19th Aug 2013 at 21:48.
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Yep, similar to WW2, we turned down having Volkswagen as part of our war reparations, look where the UK car industry is today and that of Volkswagen.
Apart from that I don't think the General Population will care too much about this. Every Nation has the right to celebrate what it thinks is worth celebrating.
That said I'm also (like Pontius Navigator) a bit wondering why one would celebrate the Beginning of a terrible and unnecessary war that did cost millions of Lives (for what purpose?) rather than the End of the war?.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
henra, we are of like mind. Elections. As I said, UK benefitted from the general uplift of a Royal Wedding, the Olympics, the 60th Anniversary, the Royal Birth.
"Now Sir Humphrey, what can we do next year before the election?"
"Now Sir Humphrey, what can we do next year before the election?"
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That said I'm also (like Pontius Navigator) a bit wondering why one would celebrate the Beginning of a terrible and unnecessary war that did cost millions of Lives (for what purpose?) rather than the End of the war?.
But we are British and will therefore celebrate the beginning and the end! Two parties... simples
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However 2018 is also the Centenary Anniversary of the RAF and therefore that should be the positive focus of an anniversary year. One suspects that it will be very different from the 50th Anniversary celebrations which were done on a grand scale.
I am a little biased for some years ago after arriving at a Summer Ball at a RAFG station and having incurred the financial outlay that such occasions merit, the stn cdr walked in at 8pm and despite the event having started, he cancelled the Ball. Why: because the German Defence Minister had asked Downing Street to cancel all such celebrations due to a fatal crash in Dortmund involving a USAF A10. As usual, there was no recompense for the guys that had flown partners out from the UK for the occasion. The air crash, whilst very sad, was no just cause for the political consequences that weekend.
A visit to the WWI Battlefields is a humbling experience. However there is no place in our future for forgetting the lessons of the past. I would agree that perhaps 'Celebrate' is an inappropriate word that should be replaced with 'commemorate '.
I am a little biased for some years ago after arriving at a Summer Ball at a RAFG station and having incurred the financial outlay that such occasions merit, the stn cdr walked in at 8pm and despite the event having started, he cancelled the Ball. Why: because the German Defence Minister had asked Downing Street to cancel all such celebrations due to a fatal crash in Dortmund involving a USAF A10. As usual, there was no recompense for the guys that had flown partners out from the UK for the occasion. The air crash, whilst very sad, was no just cause for the political consequences that weekend.
A visit to the WWI Battlefields is a humbling experience. However there is no place in our future for forgetting the lessons of the past. I would agree that perhaps 'Celebrate' is an inappropriate word that should be replaced with 'commemorate '.
henra, your attitude does you credit, and by extension the general population of your country who you say do not care much about this. If there is one reason why the UK gets itself into a real pickle time and time again it is because it anguishes too much about the opinions of others rather than of its own people. Here of course I talk about the "UK" just as the thread title implies "Germany". Governments and politicians are not the population of their countries and should never be confused with them.
Having said that, I agree that "celebrate" is totally wrong, and that "commemorate" is far more appropriate. No war should be celebrated, they only bring misery and destroy lives, even of those that survive them.
I also agree that commemorating the start of a war is a strange idea. Rather one should commemorate those who died in it and as a result of it. The time to do that is at the anniversary of its end.
The politicians fingerprints are all over this, both pro and con. I suggest a boycott!
SAS, thanks for the video. Fascinating. So an eighteenth Century written Constitution has led to a political class that is even more permanently ensconced than that in the House of Lords. Who would have thought? Might be some merit then in having an unwritten one that is reflected in the continuous reform of institutions and laws to reflect present realities and needs. No? Oh well...
Having said that, I agree that "celebrate" is totally wrong, and that "commemorate" is far more appropriate. No war should be celebrated, they only bring misery and destroy lives, even of those that survive them.
I also agree that commemorating the start of a war is a strange idea. Rather one should commemorate those who died in it and as a result of it. The time to do that is at the anniversary of its end.
The politicians fingerprints are all over this, both pro and con. I suggest a boycott!
SAS, thanks for the video. Fascinating. So an eighteenth Century written Constitution has led to a political class that is even more permanently ensconced than that in the House of Lords. Who would have thought? Might be some merit then in having an unwritten one that is reflected in the continuous reform of institutions and laws to reflect present realities and needs. No? Oh well...
Last edited by Chugalug2; 21st Aug 2013 at 12:03.
The Constitution did not lead to this situation....ignoring the Constitution did.
That is the problem....our Freedom and the structure by which it is protecting has been nibbled away at over a hundred years....and as we all know....at some point....when you step back and take a long look....the erosion becomes plain to the eye.
The North Carolina State Constitution, Article I, Section 35, reminds us that the People should look back at the Founding Principles less we forget them.
Look at the Amendments that have been made....and some repealed....fixing something that isn't broken has never been wise.
That is the problem....our Freedom and the structure by which it is protecting has been nibbled away at over a hundred years....and as we all know....at some point....when you step back and take a long look....the erosion becomes plain to the eye.
The North Carolina State Constitution, Article I, Section 35, reminds us that the People should look back at the Founding Principles less we forget them.
Look at the Amendments that have been made....and some repealed....fixing something that isn't broken has never been wise.
