Loft attack
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,168
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From: front seat, facing forwards
Originally Posted by typerated
I've seen a miss of over 4500ft - never anything approaching a DH though
Loft at Deci was always fun.....Reversionary Loft even more so!
Loads of Loft DH's over the years.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 708
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From: the far south
Good for you JAJ.
I assumed it was harder then a hole in one at golf.
Best fun was to watch was a flight of A-10s trying it at Wainfleet - the 20,000ft that BBadanov quotes was more like 1000ft and the miss distance something similar!
I assumed it was harder then a hole in one at golf.
Best fun was to watch was a flight of A-10s trying it at Wainfleet - the 20,000ft that BBadanov quotes was more like 1000ft and the miss distance something similar!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,158
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From: UK
Admittedly Rev LOFT at Deci could be 'interesting', especially when QWI navs failed to recognise the difference between a range ring and their carefully calculated cursor, but with normal modes good scores were easy.
Never did like night TF-LOFT-TF though.
Never did like night TF-LOFT-TF though.
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 1,532
From: Near the coast
Loft attack
Jag toss/loft was always reasonably accurate. It was just like most other modes, just follow the kit and fly accurately. Unless my rose tinted specs are clouding my vision again!
BV
BV
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,049
Likes: 535
From: Wherever it is this month
Tornado reversionary loft was a "manual" aiming technique, i.e. no computing involved, and was really only intended to ensure that a WE177 landed on the correct side of the FLOT. It went something along the lines of:
Pilot:
Fly precisely at pre-nominated speed and height.
Nav:
Set up a marker ring ("cursor" in the terminology) on the radar display at a pre-calculated distance ahead of the aircraft
Identify the target using the radar
Tell pilot to steer left or right until tracking directly towards target
Give a countdown such that the pilot begins pulling up as the target crosses the cursor (3-2-1-Pull)
Pilot:
Pull up at precisely 3g
As pre-nominated climb angle is reached, press the weapon release button whilst continuing 3g pull
Recover
Both:
Wince as score in excess of 1000 feet duly reported.
The opposite of Rev Loft was Auto Loft, where the target position was input into the aircraft computer and automatic weapon aiming calculations determined the point at which the weapon was released. The target position could be updated using the radar during the attack. A countdown to pull-up and azimuth steering commands were shown in the HUD, which the pilot could follow manually or let the autopilot do the business (e.g. during terrain following radar ops). Just before pull-up the autopilot would be disconnected, the pilot would follow the HUD flight director pull-up command manually, and the weapon release button would be held down. The computer would continually recalculate the bomb throw as the flightpath angle increased and the airspeed decreased, and when this met the range to target the weapons would be released automatically. At a guess, about 10% ended in DHs and good crews were able to score consistently within 100ft. The prime sources of error were probably the accuracy of the target mark on the radar, the accuracy of the aircraft's height in the bomb aiming solution, and crosswinds (because there was no lateral compensation for crosswind in the aiming solution; this meant that aircraft tracked directly towards the target at release, so as the bombs slowed down they drifted slightly downwind).
Pilot:
Fly precisely at pre-nominated speed and height.
Nav:
Set up a marker ring ("cursor" in the terminology) on the radar display at a pre-calculated distance ahead of the aircraft
Identify the target using the radar
Tell pilot to steer left or right until tracking directly towards target
Give a countdown such that the pilot begins pulling up as the target crosses the cursor (3-2-1-Pull)
Pilot:
Pull up at precisely 3g
As pre-nominated climb angle is reached, press the weapon release button whilst continuing 3g pull
Recover
Both:
Wince as score in excess of 1000 feet duly reported.
The opposite of Rev Loft was Auto Loft, where the target position was input into the aircraft computer and automatic weapon aiming calculations determined the point at which the weapon was released. The target position could be updated using the radar during the attack. A countdown to pull-up and azimuth steering commands were shown in the HUD, which the pilot could follow manually or let the autopilot do the business (e.g. during terrain following radar ops). Just before pull-up the autopilot would be disconnected, the pilot would follow the HUD flight director pull-up command manually, and the weapon release button would be held down. The computer would continually recalculate the bomb throw as the flightpath angle increased and the airspeed decreased, and when this met the range to target the weapons would be released automatically. At a guess, about 10% ended in DHs and good crews were able to score consistently within 100ft. The prime sources of error were probably the accuracy of the target mark on the radar, the accuracy of the aircraft's height in the bomb aiming solution, and crosswinds (because there was no lateral compensation for crosswind in the aiming solution; this meant that aircraft tracked directly towards the target at release, so as the bombs slowed down they drifted slightly downwind).
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 536
Likes: 71
From: Overseas
Easy Street - that's a fairly good description of a toss attack. 
To settle this - a loft attack is when a weapon is released in a climb at 1g. A toss attack is when the weapon is released at greater than 1g.
Apologies to the Tornado Force who've been doing it wrong for years
To settle this - a loft attack is when a weapon is released in a climb at 1g. A toss attack is when the weapon is released at greater than 1g.
Apologies to the Tornado Force who've been doing it wrong for years
Joined: Oct 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 801
Likes: 173
From: Land of Oz
"To settle this - a loft attack is when a weapon is released in a climb at 1g. A toss attack is when the weapon is released at greater than 1g."
Yes,
LOFT with a constant stabilised climb angle, typically 30 degrees (10 degrees mini-loft), or
TOSS with a constant g pull (>1g), typically 4g.
Yes,
LOFT with a constant stabilised climb angle, typically 30 degrees (10 degrees mini-loft), or
TOSS with a constant g pull (>1g), typically 4g.
Last edited by BBadanov; 14th August 2013 at 09:08.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,344
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From: Nomadic
The 'Fixed Range Timer Toss'.......generally went somewhere ahead of you......It was the 'ultimate' in rev modes.....why you would bother to actually do one eludes me, but was 'interesting' at debrief time.