What Did You Do In The Cold War, Daddy?
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Those that tragically lost their lives whilst serving during the "cold war" didn't die because of it but, simply because they were undertaking risky, dangerous training. Thats what we do in the military. How would you decide the qualifying criteria for such a campaign medal? Where was the front line? Etc etc.
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NAAFI bop on a Friday night..
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I know National Servicemen have pressed for a medal, and then many awarded themselves a private gong. Many got real medals in Korea, some got GSM for Suez I think.
Some were stewards in the RAF in comfy billets in a UK posting.
Not all were equal.
The same applied to the Cold War regulars.
Some got GSM in NI, Cyprus, Aden, Malaysia etc and arguably not part of the Cold War, or were they? Do those in RAFG merit a different award from those in UK? Were all supporting personnel, and I only state RAF, in MC, SC, FTC Cold War warriors? Did operational aircrew in BC, FC, CC, merits a a special award different from TC?
Then the cost. Who pays? The cost of several thousand Arctic War medals was not inconsiderable but far less that had they awarded one to Bomber Command. Award one to all Cold War warriors? Unaffordable.
Some were stewards in the RAF in comfy billets in a UK posting.
Not all were equal.
The same applied to the Cold War regulars.
Some got GSM in NI, Cyprus, Aden, Malaysia etc and arguably not part of the Cold War, or were they? Do those in RAFG merit a different award from those in UK? Were all supporting personnel, and I only state RAF, in MC, SC, FTC Cold War warriors? Did operational aircrew in BC, FC, CC, merits a a special award different from TC?
Then the cost. Who pays? The cost of several thousand Arctic War medals was not inconsiderable but far less that had they awarded one to Bomber Command. Award one to all Cold War warriors? Unaffordable.
You need to define dates. I served on tankers 1971 - 77 so was never directly involved in the bombing side. Those on Vulcans at that time no longer did QRA, but there was a nuclear capability and we on tankers had a nuclear war role which we trained for, so were we cold war warriors too?
Either way I dont want a medal!
Either way I dont want a medal!
Cold War flying Risks
Jayand “…nobody got hurt” ?
Heathrow Harry “…with almost unlimited pointy kit with the minimal risk of getting maimed/killed.”
Hardly.
If you just look at the Fast Jet accident rate for Cold War peacetime training you will see that very many more RAF aircrew lost their lives in that period than has been the case for all the medium altitude wars since GW1.
The reason is simple. We had a lot of aeroplanes, most of them with inadequate navigation/ weapons kit and we often had to fly in appalling weather and with aircraft unserviceabilities to get the job done.
Jayand and Heathrow Harry - just how well do you think would you have done leading a bounced 4-ship in typical West German 5km vis (i.e. 2.5k to port and 2.5k to stbd).
With the windscreen obscured by insects.
And with no nav aids - just map-and stopwatch at 450kt?
Several of my colleagues were killed in mid-airs in conditions like that.
Have you ever heard of TACEVAL? Have you any idea of how much pressure was put on everyone from the Stn Cdr downwards to get a good result - regardless of equipment deficiencies, poor weather etc. ?
On one Fast Jet OCU I served on during the Cold War we had one third of the staff killed in flying accidents during one 6 month period.
Go and count the gravestones.
Heathrow Harry “…with almost unlimited pointy kit with the minimal risk of getting maimed/killed.”
Hardly.
If you just look at the Fast Jet accident rate for Cold War peacetime training you will see that very many more RAF aircrew lost their lives in that period than has been the case for all the medium altitude wars since GW1.
The reason is simple. We had a lot of aeroplanes, most of them with inadequate navigation/ weapons kit and we often had to fly in appalling weather and with aircraft unserviceabilities to get the job done.
Jayand and Heathrow Harry - just how well do you think would you have done leading a bounced 4-ship in typical West German 5km vis (i.e. 2.5k to port and 2.5k to stbd).
With the windscreen obscured by insects.
And with no nav aids - just map-and stopwatch at 450kt?
Several of my colleagues were killed in mid-airs in conditions like that.
Have you ever heard of TACEVAL? Have you any idea of how much pressure was put on everyone from the Stn Cdr downwards to get a good result - regardless of equipment deficiencies, poor weather etc. ?
On one Fast Jet OCU I served on during the Cold War we had one third of the staff killed in flying accidents during one 6 month period.
Go and count the gravestones.
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The Cold War
My grandfather, 3rd Bn Worcs France Aug 1914, would never talk about his experiences to either my father or myself. On being questioned hard, his only comment was, "you don't need to know about that, my boy. If you were there then you know all you need to know, if you were not, then you don't want to"
As he had been a pre WW1, time served regular, I accepted and respected his views, but times change although the sentiment does not.
Subsequent studies of the events of Aug-Nov 1914 show that it was a pivotal and very bloody phase of WW1 and the pundits/politicians had retrospective careers but do we/did we ever learn anything from the Cold War?
As he had been a pre WW1, time served regular, I accepted and respected his views, but times change although the sentiment does not.
Subsequent studies of the events of Aug-Nov 1914 show that it was a pivotal and very bloody phase of WW1 and the pundits/politicians had retrospective careers but do we/did we ever learn anything from the Cold War?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I know someone who was a bit miffed dealing with Sir .... Bt and Mr . . . MBE etc until one day his secretary asked of his new business cards:
Mr . . . CDM
And he said, why not, everyone else has.
For our colonial friends - Cadburys Dairy Milk - a chocolate bar rather tastier than a Hershey
Mr . . . CDM
And he said, why not, everyone else has.
For our colonial friends - Cadburys Dairy Milk - a chocolate bar rather tastier than a Hershey
One of my pet peeves is that the Great Unwashed seem to think that the Vulcan force had nothing to do between the advent of Polaris in 1968 and the South Atlantic war in 1982......
Had that idiot McNamara not cancelled Skybolt, the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.
Had that idiot McNamara not cancelled Skybolt, the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.
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Had that idiot McNamara not cancelled Skybolt, the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.
If you wanted to keep the role, you could have had it. You decided not to keep playing. There were alternatives - a new bomber, developing your own not tied to Washington's ALCM, etc.
But it's always easier to blame someone else it would appear. Especially if they provide the bigger umbrella.
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I know someone who was a bit miffed dealing with Sir .... Bt and Mr . . . MBE etc until one day his secretary asked of his new business cards:
Mr . . . CDM
And he said, why not, everyone else has.
Mr . . . CDM
And he said, why not, everyone else has.
OC ENG
OC SQN
OC A flight
OC B flight
etc etc etc
so made one up with OC NLMC
and after that had no problems as no one used it bar me, told one of the guys when posted he might as well have it, querying who's it was, I pointed out it was OC Nutloose's Motor Cycle.. works a treat, just copy one of those already there
Is it true Coff had the Shilling he found at the bottom of his beer mounted so he could wear it?
Last edited by NutLoose; 2nd Aug 2013 at 11:17.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Post 1965 that dropped to 90. The replacement of the Vulcan Mk 1/1a with Vulcan 2 FF saw a force level of 16 at Cottesmore, 24 at Waddington and 24 at Scampton, 64 plus 16 Victor or now 80 systems.
The withdrawal of the Victor 2, and the conversion of the Vulcan BS saw a reduction of 16 - 24 - 16 or 56.
Now the RN added 16 Polaris making 72 with a potential of a further 16 or 88 total. Effectively the total National Deterrent has therefore been static at 70-90 systems.
With the Chevaline systems multiple warheads were added and a gradual reduction in V-force sqns.
In other words the RN added a strategic dimension and didn't replace the V-force at all.
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OK I've never been in the forces (failed medical for want of trying) but my view is no metals.
But do not forget the men and women who have, or will, serve our country.
But do not forget the men and women who have, or will, serve our country.