Excuse me, can I borrow your map!
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Excuse me, can I borrow your map!
Britain had to rely on maps from Germany in its support for the uprising against Colonel Gaddafi in Libya.
In an embarrassment for British spies, they ended up depending on help from a country that refused to back the rebels.
It was the first time the UK had to rely on Germany for military assistance since 1815 when the Prussian army of Gebhard von Blucher helped Wellington defeat Napoleon at Waterloo.
In an embarrassment for British spies, they ended up depending on help from a country that refused to back the rebels.
It was the first time the UK had to rely on Germany for military assistance since 1815 when the Prussian army of Gebhard von Blucher helped Wellington defeat Napoleon at Waterloo.
I feel ashamed.
How Britain had to ask Germany for maps of Libya during revolt against Gaddafi | Mail Online
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ghost of Churchill, I am sure there is more to this than appears.
There is military mapping for the whole world. Rather than every country producing its own mapping to the same specifications - JOG, TPC, TTC, TNC, JNC, GC etc - there was an agreement for different countries to produce the mapping for a given region but to the common specification. I expect that would explain why Libya was covered with German mapping.
At least today most of the world is surveyed. When first flying over Africa large parts of the chart were blank or roads did not join up and features were marked (reported) or (possible).
Getsomein: you beat me to it.
Incidentally it would not be the first time. Many of the target photographs used by JARIC in the 60s to illustrate our deterrent targets were from German sources.
There is military mapping for the whole world. Rather than every country producing its own mapping to the same specifications - JOG, TPC, TTC, TNC, JNC, GC etc - there was an agreement for different countries to produce the mapping for a given region but to the common specification. I expect that would explain why Libya was covered with German mapping.
At least today most of the world is surveyed. When first flying over Africa large parts of the chart were blank or roads did not join up and features were marked (reported) or (possible).
Getsomein: you beat me to it.
Incidentally it would not be the first time. Many of the target photographs used by JARIC in the 60s to illustrate our deterrent targets were from German sources.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 11th Jul 2013 at 08:14.
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It was the first time the UK had to rely on Germany for military assistance
since 1815 when the Prussian army of Gebhard von Blucher helped Wellington
defeat Napoleon at Waterloo.
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When first flying over Africa large parts of the chart were blank or roads did not join up and features were marked (reported) or (possible).
No doubt the maps PN used in training were marked 'hic sunt dracones'?
Even in the late 1970s, the French low level 50 thou maps we used in the Vulcan came from the days of Napoleon! Railways had yet to be invented.....
Even in the late 1970s, the French low level 50 thou maps we used in the Vulcan came from the days of Napoleon! Railways had yet to be invented.....
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At least today most of the world is surveyed. When first flying over Africa large parts of the chart were blank or roads did not join up and features were marked (reported) or (possible).
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When Pere Artist was driving HMS Endurance there were charts of parts of the S Atlantic still in use that only had information derived from Cook's voyages 
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Some of his original maps of the area (now in my loft) have large white spaces which simply say "relief data incomplete".
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AA but at least we could take some national pride that the charts were made by Captain Cook RN, not by Herr Kapitain Cook or by M. Captaine Cook!
The sad truth is that there was a time when GB lead the world and were the first to develop such things as radar, the steam turbine, the gas turbine (jet engine), the steam catapult, the angled flight deck, VSTOL flight etc. etc. but we don't anymore. Now we aren't even a bit-part player and are totally out of the race and can't even field a team.
MB
The sad truth is that there was a time when GB lead the world and were the first to develop such things as radar, the steam turbine, the gas turbine (jet engine), the steam catapult, the angled flight deck, VSTOL flight etc. etc. but we don't anymore. Now we aren't even a bit-part player and are totally out of the race and can't even field a team.
MB
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Very early days of the Kosovo skirmish and some of us were flying around Albania and FYROM on Michelin Road maps (someone else had bagged all the Little Chef maps 
). Then again, we were also tasking through our mobile phones as the initial siggie rebro coverage was patchy.
Ho Hum.
). Then again, we were also tasking through our mobile phones as the initial siggie rebro coverage was patchy.Ho Hum.
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sitigeltfel - Most amusing.
Madbob - Fully agree and this (for me) is the crux of the matter, that our government have no more pride in Britain and are unwilling to do what it takes to promote that spirit of initiative or the pioneering attitude which has for so many generations been an integral part of our culture.
I fear for our nation believing we are on the cusp of irreversible demise.
Madbob - Fully agree and this (for me) is the crux of the matter, that our government have no more pride in Britain and are unwilling to do what it takes to promote that spirit of initiative or the pioneering attitude which has for so many generations been an integral part of our culture.
I fear for our nation believing we are on the cusp of irreversible demise.
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Churchills Ghost sitigeltfel - Most amusing.
Madbob - Fully agree and this (for me) is the crux of the matter, that our government have no more pride in Britain and are unwilling to do what it takes to promote that spirit of initiative or the pioneering attitude which has for so many generations been an integral part of our culture.
I fear for our nation believing we are on the cusp of irreversible demise.
Madbob - Fully agree and this (for me) is the crux of the matter, that our government have no more pride in Britain and are unwilling to do what it takes to promote that spirit of initiative or the pioneering attitude which has for so many generations been an integral part of our culture.
I fear for our nation believing we are on the cusp of irreversible demise.
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I heard a long time ago that when the US bombed Gaddafi in 1986 they also used Wermacht maps and that the difference in grids between the WWII maps and WGS84 was why some of the ordnance fell off target.
Sailing around the Greek islands, only about 20 years ago, the only avalable charts (and I still have one) were Admiralty Charts.
In the corner it says
" Surveyed by Captain A.L.Mansell, R.N.
Assisted by the Officers of H.M.S. Hydra, 1864-5"
In the corner it says
" Surveyed by Captain A.L.Mansell, R.N.
Assisted by the Officers of H.M.S. Hydra, 1864-5"
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Imagery Recce, satellite or other means.
Google earth, or other means..
Programme your brick....
Fly.
Use map as a bit of a handrail.
Most modern aircraft utilise MPS of some kind or another.....if the plan changes....think twice about going off the line!
Google earth, or other means..
Programme your brick....
Fly.
Use map as a bit of a handrail.
Most modern aircraft utilise MPS of some kind or another.....if the plan changes....think twice about going off the line!