Captain 'captain' Wales
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OK I'll bite,
Only in the respect that I'm curious about the young Sirs role. From what I've read in the press etc, I get the impression that Captain Wales is actually the Army equivalent of a "Wizzo" and doesn't actually fly the aircraft. Please don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to denigrate his obvious prowess in his chosen occupation. But does he fly it, or does he operate the systems ? It never seems clear, and, the latest report (above) seems to indicate greater responsibility for him, but still doesn't say if he is "hands on" piloting the beast. Perhaps one of our Army colleagues could help an old engineer out and explain it. I must say, a guess is probably better than anything that Sky News could claim as an accurate report !
Smudge
Only in the respect that I'm curious about the young Sirs role. From what I've read in the press etc, I get the impression that Captain Wales is actually the Army equivalent of a "Wizzo" and doesn't actually fly the aircraft. Please don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to denigrate his obvious prowess in his chosen occupation. But does he fly it, or does he operate the systems ? It never seems clear, and, the latest report (above) seems to indicate greater responsibility for him, but still doesn't say if he is "hands on" piloting the beast. Perhaps one of our Army colleagues could help an old engineer out and explain it. I must say, a guess is probably better than anything that Sky News could claim as an accurate report !
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 5th Jul 2013 at 20:52.
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My understanding is this.
The co pilot in the front main function is to handle the weapons
but he can fly the aircraft if needed. The pilot in the back is the
main pilot. Prince Harry can and does fly the aircraft.
Would be good if Harry kept going with his Army career.
The co pilot in the front main function is to handle the weapons
but he can fly the aircraft if needed. The pilot in the back is the
main pilot. Prince Harry can and does fly the aircraft.
Would be good if Harry kept going with his Army career.
Agreed 500N,
And thanks for that info. He strikes me as an excellent role model for youngsters these days. I tend to ignore the more salacious stuff the press get into a frenzy over. We were all young once! Thanks again.
Smudge
And thanks for that info. He strikes me as an excellent role model for youngsters these days. I tend to ignore the more salacious stuff the press get into a frenzy over. We were all young once! Thanks again.
Smudge
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Yes, in most cases he is a good role model and yes, we were all young once !
Nothing he has done that I have seen is out of what has occurred
by others, especially in Messes !!!
Not sure whether you like reading but I found a few of the books
on the Apache in Afghanistan quite interesting. The two Ed Macy books,
am currently getting a couple more, the one by "Charlotte" and a US
pilots book.
Nothing he has done that I have seen is out of what has occurred
by others, especially in Messes !!!
Not sure whether you like reading but I found a few of the books
on the Apache in Afghanistan quite interesting. The two Ed Macy books,
am currently getting a couple more, the one by "Charlotte" and a US
pilots book.
500N, thanks again, always on the lookout for a good read. I'm assuming Ed Macy ? Apache and Hellfire . Just got them ordered on Amazon. I may be able to answer my own question when I read them 
Smudge
Smudge
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Yes, those two. Hopefully someone far more qualified will come
on and answer your question.
Re the books, you have to read between the lines sometimes ! but a good read anyhow.
I really want to read Charlotte's book as that will give another side
to Ed Macy's writings.
I can't remember the 4th boo I want.
on and answer your question.
Re the books, you have to read between the lines sometimes ! but a good read anyhow.
I really want to read Charlotte's book as that will give another side
to Ed Macy's writings.
I can't remember the 4th boo I want.
Last edited by 500N; 5th Jul 2013 at 21:15.
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He wears pilot's wings so yes, he can and does fly the beast.
The Army does not have Wizzos. Apaches carry two pilots. The one in the back normally flies it. The one in the front controls the target acquisition and weapon systems. However, both pilots are trained and qualified in both roles. They can also both do each others jobs from their own seat if required, but the guy in the back is the pilot, the one in the front is the gunner. Either can be the aircraft commander, provided he is qualified to that level, as the lad now is.
This is an extraordinary achievement. The lad has exceptional ability. The royal bashers who maintain that he only got where he is because of who he is are certifiable.
The Army does not have Wizzos. Apaches carry two pilots. The one in the back normally flies it. The one in the front controls the target acquisition and weapon systems. However, both pilots are trained and qualified in both roles. They can also both do each others jobs from their own seat if required, but the guy in the back is the pilot, the one in the front is the gunner. Either can be the aircraft commander, provided he is qualified to that level, as the lad now is.
This is an extraordinary achievement. The lad has exceptional ability. The royal bashers who maintain that he only got where he is because of who he is are certifiable.
Clockwork Mouse,
That explains it a bit better I think. Like you I believe that he is following a normal career progression. No sign of heirs and graces about him, a bloke I would happily have a beer with. It's a shame the press feel that it's their duty to build him up, and then no doubt, take the greatest pleasure in "bringing him down", when the mood takes them. I wish him all the best, he is obviously suited to his chosen path, as his commanders have commented, and all credit to a man who is prepared to put his @rse in the fire, when he could walk away and be another rich kid.
Smudge
That explains it a bit better I think. Like you I believe that he is following a normal career progression. No sign of heirs and graces about him, a bloke I would happily have a beer with. It's a shame the press feel that it's their duty to build him up, and then no doubt, take the greatest pleasure in "bringing him down", when the mood takes them. I wish him all the best, he is obviously suited to his chosen path, as his commanders have commented, and all credit to a man who is prepared to put his @rse in the fire, when he could walk away and be another rich kid.
Smudge
Well I learnt something from this thread. Never heard the term "wizzo" before!
So if I were 30-40 years younger I'd have been a "wizzo"?
Who'd have thunk it?!
By the way I picked up a load of old AAC 'O' and 'G' brevets when I was dealing in such stuff. Does the army still have observers and gunners?
So if I were 30-40 years younger I'd have been a "wizzo"?
Who'd have thunk it?!
By the way I picked up a load of old AAC 'O' and 'G' brevets when I was dealing in such stuff. Does the army still have observers and gunners?
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 5th Jul 2013 at 22:54.
The Observer and Air Gunner training stream was supposed to be phased-out with the introduction of CREST (Crew RESTructuring) in the late 1980's, which would have ensured that all Army aircraft would be crewed by two pilots. A good number of them were still clinging-on into the 90s when I gave it all up.
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Originally Posted by clockwork mouse
The royal bashers who maintain that he only got where he is because of who he is are certifiable.
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Some people need to get a life.
fancy dress party ... get it ? Insensitive perhaps, but no more.
who paid for that then? ... well do tell us, please.
fancy dress party ... get it ? Insensitive perhaps, but no more.
who paid for that then? ... well do tell us, please.
Last edited by Q-RTF-X; 6th Jul 2013 at 04:08.
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TT2
Q-RTF-X said it before me. Might not have been the wisest of fancy dress
but it was fancy dress.
He was on leave. Are you trying to say that no RAF Officer never partied like that on exchange or on a Red Flag exercise ?
Reading some of the threads on here - the drinking culture thread for one,
doesn't look to me like much different to what Harry was doing.
His one failing, or the failing of his body guard was allow photos to be taken.
Q-RTF-X said it before me. Might not have been the wisest of fancy dress
but it was fancy dress.
He was on leave. Are you trying to say that no RAF Officer never partied like that on exchange or on a Red Flag exercise ?
Reading some of the threads on here - the drinking culture thread for one,
doesn't look to me like much different to what Harry was doing.
His one failing, or the failing of his body guard was allow photos to be taken.
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gr4techie - Oh what a sad little man we have here then! (or is he/she just pure troll?).
Prince William is the captain of the aircraft he flies, having recently qualified as such and commands the whole shebang on rescue missions.
Prince Harry has just qualified as captain of an Apache helicopter.
Both jobs are among the hardest you will find in the rotary world. In order to ensure that you, yes you get the best return for your money the princes were trained on helicopters at lesser cost as they will have considerable and ever increasing Royal duties to perform and this is considered more cost effective than spending millions on training them up to and keeping them at Typhoon standard.
Prince William is the captain of the aircraft he flies, having recently qualified as such and commands the whole shebang on rescue missions.
Prince Harry has just qualified as captain of an Apache helicopter.
Both jobs are among the hardest you will find in the rotary world. In order to ensure that you, yes you get the best return for your money the princes were trained on helicopters at lesser cost as they will have considerable and ever increasing Royal duties to perform and this is considered more cost effective than spending millions on training them up to and keeping them at Typhoon standard.
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parabellum - as a mod I'm not allowed to "criticize" people for their opinions in here, but merely have to keep the whole shebang on the rails.
So it's really useful to see posts such as yours above where I can then just go
So it's really useful to see posts such as yours above where I can then just go
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Unfortunately, PPRuNe has a few people who post without much knowledge of what they comment upon, in the same way that other sites have those who claim to have "done P Company" or been awarded parachute wings.
My personal opinion is that anyone who seriously believes that the British military would certify a pilot as an aircraft Captain/Commander just for show may benefit from doing some research beyond what they consider to be their field of expertise.
Well done to both Princes for what they have done so far in their military careers.
My personal opinion is that anyone who seriously believes that the British military would certify a pilot as an aircraft Captain/Commander just for show may benefit from doing some research beyond what they consider to be their field of expertise.
Well done to both Princes for what they have done so far in their military careers.
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Well done to both Royal aircraft captains doing, as stated above, two of the hardest jobs in the rotary world.
Those who say that the two of them have achieved this because of their Royal status are clearly talking bolleaux and know nothing of how the military works. Imagine the results of a BoI should a serious incident occur while one of them was driving and his lack of skills was found to be a factor. I suspect whoever signed off his quals would come in for a pretty rough ride.
As for the oft-repeated statement: "Can you imagine any instructor failing them". Nonsense.
I know of at least one member of the Royal family who was categorically told "I don't give a s**t who your mother-in-law is, there is no way you are going to pass your promotion exam, so you'd better get out while the going is good."
As I understand it, the above is slightly bowdlerised from the original.
Those who say that the two of them have achieved this because of their Royal status are clearly talking bolleaux and know nothing of how the military works. Imagine the results of a BoI should a serious incident occur while one of them was driving and his lack of skills was found to be a factor. I suspect whoever signed off his quals would come in for a pretty rough ride.
As for the oft-repeated statement: "Can you imagine any instructor failing them". Nonsense.
I know of at least one member of the Royal family who was categorically told "I don't give a s**t who your mother-in-law is, there is no way you are going to pass your promotion exam, so you'd better get out while the going is good."
As I understand it, the above is slightly bowdlerised from the original.