Drinking Culture in the RAF Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,068
Received 2,938 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Same here TW50, I can go months without any then may have a few before going months again without touching it... Though I do enjoy a bottle of wine on a weekend of late.
Last edited by NutLoose; 29th Jun 2013 at 20:15.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies again for any idea I may have left that I thought you had a drinking problem.
Smudge,
Thanks for your reply, I did not read your post as suggesting anything of the sort ergo no apology required.
Last edited by Shack37; 29th Jun 2013 at 20:38.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: One Three Seven, Disco Heaven.
Age: 65
Posts: 2,540
Likes: 0
Received 34 Likes
on
17 Posts
Joined in 76 and after training and into the real RAF at Lossiemouth, it was out on the town or in the Naafi 4 or 5 nights a week, and at least 4 pints a night. The bars shut at 10.30 in Scotland then and that was drag, until they introduced 11-11 hours for pubs and the Naafi open till I think 00.00 or even 01.00. I can well remember one day being on the booze from 11.00am until Midnight, trying to dance with some lass at the Naafi bop and unable to move my feet, I was so drunk. Woke up on Sunday morning, and nothing, no hangover or side effects at all. I remember having a little internal word with myself about it warning me to watch it in future. Two tours in Belize with a lot of weekends in the City knocking back the drink, and a posting in between to Kinloss, which was a social club, masquerading as an RAF Base. In all that time I never felt I was out of control or it was a problem, I was young and could handle it. The one thing I would never do, was put in for Germany. Whenever you asked anyone what Germany was like, it was always about the alcohol. I know a few folk who came back from there with not necessarily an alcohol problem, but with a large rate of consumption of the stuff, and the big difference in price was a problem for them. I bought a 4 pack some months ago to have a drink watching the European cup final, planning to have one for each half. As it turned out I forced myself to finish the first one, and the other 3 are still sitting in the fridge. I guess when you were out with your mates you looked after each other, you were young and daft, and had the money to spend, but as you got older the money was better spent on other things.
An interesting post.
I served in the RAF in the 80s and there definitely was a drinking culture BUT as long as you stuck to the adage of 'Dont be late on parade', drinking seemed to be an accepted part of the work hard, play hard attitude to life in the RAF. Now after 20 years in civvie mode, i can see that there is equally hard drinking as i ever saw in the RAF. I still see guys drinking 20 pints in a session that would floor me after half that amount but at the same time they will never pass BFT or would ever be seen as the right material for military life now, although some of them are ex Army and RAF.
I served on the same squadron as the OP and we have plenty of stories of life in the 'front line' in RAFG enjoying the benefits of overseas allowance and an inclusive environment stationed in a fantastic community - life really was good!
Attitudes to alcohol have changed and no doubt the RAF has moved in the same direction as the corporate world (although some people still manage to have those corporate long boozy lunches and then go back to their desks for the afternoon).
Like everything else there were times we want to forget but I do remember being pulled up by my SENGO as i'd been spotted by aircrew quaffing a quick cup of Gluhwein when i was on nightshift at a Guy Fawkes night at Brueggen and I had to put my hands up and apologise. The most important point is I dont think we were relaxed about the consumption of alcohol and its impact on the safety of the lives of our comrades.
That said, i do still remember the joys as a young J/T at Coningsby, I learnt about the pleasure of being nominated to fit the LOX pots on early shift and doing oxy flow checks in the cockpit
I served in the RAF in the 80s and there definitely was a drinking culture BUT as long as you stuck to the adage of 'Dont be late on parade', drinking seemed to be an accepted part of the work hard, play hard attitude to life in the RAF. Now after 20 years in civvie mode, i can see that there is equally hard drinking as i ever saw in the RAF. I still see guys drinking 20 pints in a session that would floor me after half that amount but at the same time they will never pass BFT or would ever be seen as the right material for military life now, although some of them are ex Army and RAF.
I served on the same squadron as the OP and we have plenty of stories of life in the 'front line' in RAFG enjoying the benefits of overseas allowance and an inclusive environment stationed in a fantastic community - life really was good!
Attitudes to alcohol have changed and no doubt the RAF has moved in the same direction as the corporate world (although some people still manage to have those corporate long boozy lunches and then go back to their desks for the afternoon).
Like everything else there were times we want to forget but I do remember being pulled up by my SENGO as i'd been spotted by aircrew quaffing a quick cup of Gluhwein when i was on nightshift at a Guy Fawkes night at Brueggen and I had to put my hands up and apologise. The most important point is I dont think we were relaxed about the consumption of alcohol and its impact on the safety of the lives of our comrades.
That said, i do still remember the joys as a young J/T at Coningsby, I learnt about the pleasure of being nominated to fit the LOX pots on early shift and doing oxy flow checks in the cockpit
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Back in the sixties a lot of the senior pilots were ex-wartime, when a lot of drinking went on. I suppose when tomorrow's flight might be your last, that was to be expected. In fact, in Enemy Coast Ahead, Gibson responds to criticism of the drinking culture and explains that it had a lot to do with bonding and esprit de corps.
I went through pilot training in '65-'66 and the expected was bar till eleven, breakfast at seven, brief at eight and airborne at nine. I found as I got older that the quality of oxygen seemed to change: a quick whiff was no longer enough. Nowadays the commercial guys daren't touch the stuff during the working week.
I went through pilot training in '65-'66 and the expected was bar till eleven, breakfast at seven, brief at eight and airborne at nine. I found as I got older that the quality of oxygen seemed to change: a quick whiff was no longer enough. Nowadays the commercial guys daren't touch the stuff during the working week.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.
Rules on dinking went through the roof - some took it to extremes; for example, an edict came from on high that guests to messes were to be served soft drinks only - my Staish sent a missive back to the effect that HE would decide what to serve guests on HIS station.
These days, the drinking culture is largely dead - the latest generation are not used to 'going for a beer' at the end of the day/week...
Rules on dinking went through the roof - some took it to extremes; for example, an edict came from on high that guests to messes were to be served soft drinks only - my Staish sent a missive back to the effect that HE would decide what to serve guests on HIS station.
These days, the drinking culture is largely dead - the latest generation are not used to 'going for a beer' at the end of the day/week...
When I joined in 1965, I was ex Mercantile Marine (Merch) where we thought ourselves quite a drinking womanising bunch.
As a new junior RAF officer, I rapidly formed the opinion that the RAF had the MN beaten into a corner in those respects.
A very minor custom was that, refuelling in Istres le Tube near Marseille we would have a glass of wine with lunch before continuing to Malta or Cyprus. One day, on a whole crew route check, the wine arrived but, of course, no-one touched it until the 54yo route check captain picked up a bottle and announced "Shall we just treat this like a normal trip?"
The drinking, extramarital shagging and GF swopping were legendary.
Aahh
Edited to say - Had a look this am to see if I'd posted anything bannable post drinks
As a new junior RAF officer, I rapidly formed the opinion that the RAF had the MN beaten into a corner in those respects.
A very minor custom was that, refuelling in Istres le Tube near Marseille we would have a glass of wine with lunch before continuing to Malta or Cyprus. One day, on a whole crew route check, the wine arrived but, of course, no-one touched it until the 54yo route check captain picked up a bottle and announced "Shall we just treat this like a normal trip?"
The drinking, extramarital shagging and GF swopping were legendary.
Aahh
Edited to say - Had a look this am to see if I'd posted anything bannable post drinks
Last edited by Basil; 30th Jun 2013 at 08:17. Reason: What did I say last night?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,068
Received 2,938 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Anyone remember pints of Tizer? 
'Twas cheaper to put spirits in the glass at Bruggen than the mixer, so pints of Bacardi coke etc was the norm in the Naff 1...
Or Deci and the Deci red purchased from a "petrol pump" behind the German Bar.
'Twas cheaper to put spirits in the glass at Bruggen than the mixer, so pints of Bacardi coke etc was the norm in the Naff 1...
Or Deci and the Deci red purchased from a "petrol pump" behind the German Bar.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Annapolis, MD
Age: 86
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the 50's one was expected to be in the mess bar at 5:30pm with the rest of the squadron. I seem to recall that habitual absence was reflected on ones annual report. Same for dining in night's, one was expected to be there and get involved in mess games.
Happy daze!!!
Bob C
Happy daze!!!
Bob C
I can remember being posted to RAFU Goose Bay in the early 70s. Goose was on the special duties list at the time and was parented by Waddington.
Sgt Oberon duly presented himself at Waddington and was interviewed by a Sqn. Ldr. Educator, part of the conversation went :-
"Sgt., are you teetotal ?" "No, sir"
"Are you a habitual drinker ?" "No, sir"
"That's OK then, we don't like to send drunks or teetotallers to Goose, just normal people who are going to get smashed 2-3 times a week", and we did.
Sgt Oberon duly presented himself at Waddington and was interviewed by a Sqn. Ldr. Educator, part of the conversation went :-
"Sgt., are you teetotal ?" "No, sir"
"Are you a habitual drinker ?" "No, sir"
"That's OK then, we don't like to send drunks or teetotallers to Goose, just normal people who are going to get smashed 2-3 times a week", and we did.
Last edited by The Oberon; 30th Jun 2013 at 05:49.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PORTUGAL
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah the 60's. I well recall one very foggy morning at Syerston with a poor forecast for the afternoon. The boss suggested a session at a local pub in a nearby village. We all marched down, yes; marched, leaving a duty boy on the desk. Well into a very convivial session, the boss took a call from the duty boy. The weather had miraculously cleared and the CFI wanted to know why the f*** we weren't flying. After a rapid RTB, we manned up for Staff Continuation Training. No studes were subjected to our possibly degraded abilities. A lot of formation aeros and circuits and we were soon fit for the evening session. AND boxes were ticked.
I was sitting next to a German Service mate on a flight some years ago and started browsing the Airline's In-Flight magazine. Amongst the usual inane drivel was an article including one of those "effects of Alcohol" pieces, including the loading table. " One beer = no effect," "Two beers = slight elevation of mood" up to "Twenty Beers = danger of total loss of consciousness - possible death".
Now Edgar was a drinker of the old German School, so out of interest I handed the magazine across to him for his opinion. With a bored expression he looked at it , glanced down the "Alcohol effects" table and passed it back.
" I drink more than that before I have a p*ss", he replied.
Now Edgar was a drinker of the old German School, so out of interest I handed the magazine across to him for his opinion. With a bored expression he looked at it , glanced down the "Alcohol effects" table and passed it back.
" I drink more than that before I have a p*ss", he replied.
Last edited by Haraka; 30th Jun 2013 at 07:42.
Remember Aunty Joan at Neatishead, with a smile on her face watching the look of disgust on the late great Ken Hayr's face as he realised the beer the Boss had given him was non-alcoholic. She reminded him it was his rules as AOC. I think it was quickly changed for a "proper" pint!
The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 81
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First posting in 1960 after Boy Entrant training and 617 squadron Christmas p.u. at the big pub by Caenby Corner. My first squadron bash, lots of grizzled old timers on the squadron who seemed intent on breaking wet behind the ears former boy entrants into the culture. The eats that night was a simple affair; a great cauldron of thick pea soup and crusty bread. The grizzled old timers had determined I was to drink pints of bitter with rum and black chasers. The combined effect of the soup and the drinks made for a rather colorful yawn just outside, fortunately before boarding the bus to return. There were many walking wounded and I thought I did well to start feeling human again in just under 48 hours; heavy duty stuff. Good foundation for two tours at Akrotiri, one in Masirah and a handful of detachments (including a couple in Malta).
Was there a drinking culture in those days certainly but, as quite a few have pointed out, we were expected to show up at work on time and police ourselves when it was needed. I left the air force in 1975 and went to work within aviation in the Middle East and found a pretty heavy duty drinking culture there also. I did witness a slowing down over the years, for the better I think. Im retired now but still do a little consulting, simple rules apply; enjoy your drink but dont make an ass of yourself. I meet up occasionally with an ex 33rd entry buddy who also lives in Manila and on such occasions feel free to be a little more flexible, wives being responsible for return transport arrangements tends to keep a bit of a cap on things though.
Was there a drinking culture in those days certainly but, as quite a few have pointed out, we were expected to show up at work on time and police ourselves when it was needed. I left the air force in 1975 and went to work within aviation in the Middle East and found a pretty heavy duty drinking culture there also. I did witness a slowing down over the years, for the better I think. Im retired now but still do a little consulting, simple rules apply; enjoy your drink but dont make an ass of yourself. I meet up occasionally with an ex 33rd entry buddy who also lives in Manila and on such occasions feel free to be a little more flexible, wives being responsible for return transport arrangements tends to keep a bit of a cap on things though.
Last edited by Q-RTF-X; 30th Jun 2013 at 09:53.
Gentleman Aviator
I recall being told on some course or other that excess alcohol was frequently detected after most non-technical failure flying accidents,
I think that was the one I attended when Day One finished with the Alcohol Abuse lecture and film ......
........ closely followed by the Welcome Barrel!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
On detachment to Tengah from Akrotiri, for two months, Boss gets us all in the crewroom for a Saturday morning social get together, just prior to returning home. When he judged that we'd consumed enough cans of Tiger he announced that we'd been extended for another month. A few moans but on the whole it was accepted and we just got on with it and carried on drinking in the Malcolm Club and London Bar in the village.
Last edited by goudie; 30th Jun 2013 at 19:13.