First Flights

[thing]

Doing about 100 hours a year Smuj! Not doing much gliding these days, heavily involved in the powered side with various things but have just heard that my old gliding club is buying a tug..... I may take a stroll along there...

Have done Bicester when Pete Stratton was a Corporal there and flying the tugs...now BGA's chief exec! Always remember walking into the hangar there for the first time and thinking I had entered heaven, what a collection of hardware.

I remember the field familiarity flight I did, Upper Heyford was still operating at the time and I remember turning off the aerotow and seeing what looked like an airborne block of flats about three miles in front of me; a C5 on approach.

[smujsmith]

I detect some sniffing for tug hours then mate. Maybe you can rekindle the gliding bug. Mine was stopped in its tracks when my back was busted in the back of a Herk, GW1. But, we try to get to the local gliding sites to watch em as often as we can. Best of luck with the tug flying, persistence usually works

Pete Stratton, first flew with him at 4 Counties, Syerston circa 83-87, He was deputy QFI to Ben Benniston. 4C's now there were some characters there. Had my first cross country with Pete, in the back seat of the Janus, we landed out at an army camp somewhere south of Cranwell. I believe I was only there for the ballast

Smudge

[NutLoose]

Rab,


Did you ever fly the Loganair into Machrihanish between 81 - 83, when VASS handled your aircraft ? If so, we may have crossed paths.

Smudge

Probably visited there in a chinook about then.....

I used to maintain one of the aircraft on his list though

[thing]

Smuj

Don't know if you knew any of the Cosford lot but Mick Davies (who was one of my gliding instructors) is still there. Flies a Christen Eagle now, got some great air to air shots of him last month when I was Cosford-Kemble. Fly down to Cosford fairly often, great place to fly into and great museum. Off there tomorrow actually, my Godson's 21st. Unfortunately have to drive down as they can't accept civvy a/c on the weekend.

Syerston is just down the road from me, have thought about giving them a bell on the flying instructional side; I only work three days a week now, have some spare time to fill in.

[smujsmith]

Thing,

We often had visits from "the Cosford lot" at 4C's. I remember a Jock lad getting grounded for spinning our K18, straight off release, scaring the hell out of the winch driver, and landing downwind (as I remember RAFGSA had a rule that you could not do aerobatics in single seaters ). I was duty pilot that day and having seen the impertinent visitor from Cosford out of "my" K18, proceeded to do my 5 hours in it to complete my Silver C. A loop or two was OK to celebrate. Anyway, Cosford Museum. I was there about a month ago, couldn't get them to put the props right on the Herk as for Syerston, they were always good to me, I was based at Waddington on Nimrod AEW and had absolutely nothing to do. So, the OC Air Cadets GS asked that I be detached to Syerston to help them catch up with a backlog of servicing. As a SNCO Airframe, I could do all the work they needed on gliders. I spent 2 days flying, 3 days servicing. Home to duty paid and some brilliant people. Call in I'm sure it's still the same. All the best.

Smudge

[thing]

Ah the K18 Smuj. Wonderful aircraft, K8 on steroids. Had one at Cosford that had been pranged and always flew left wing low thereafter but once you knew it's idiosyncrasies was a wonderful a/c. Sort of the last throw of wood and fabric before glass took over.

Couple of oppos are at Halton at the moment on posting having a great time instructing etc. Called in there last month, seems like a great set up, if a little busy trying to get into the circuit...

[rab-k]

Originally Posted by smujsmith

Rab,

Did you ever fly the Loganair into Machrihanish between 81 - 83, when VASS handled your aircraft ? If so, we may have crossed paths.

Smudge

Sorry Smudge, I was an 11 year old example of SLF at the time...

NutLoose - Nice aeroplane 'Oscar Noddy', very forgiving for ham-fisted novices like me. Nearest it has ever come to a carrier landing was my solo circuit - extremely positive contact with the deck, followed by 'Bolter', then a vacate left and high-speed taxi back to the club, hoping that nobody else noticed...

[thing]

Nearest it has ever come to a carrier landing was my solo circuit - extremely positive contact with the deck,

I wish I had thought of that description last Wednesday when a pal did that to me but it is now filed away for future refernece thank you...

[mopardave]

Smudge

you're not being presumptious in the slightest. I have nothing but the greatest of respect for anyone who donned a military uniform.......but those who flew fast jets in the cold war era.........well, what can I say? I know you guys probably took it all for granted but I can't help think that being in the air force at that time must have been an incredible, rewarding and sometimes frightening experience.

As for firefighting, well, even that ain't what it used to be.......like I said, there's no fun in the work place anymore......and let's face it, and this is something the politicians can't begin to understand, but even people employed in "serious" jobs need to let there hair down and let off steam once in a while.......it does wonders for moral but the Whitehall mandarins, bean counters and politicians wouldn't get that would they!

Thanks for doing a magnificent job guys........keep up the good work!!

Dave

[ExAscoteer]

Anyway, Cosford Museum. I was there about a month ago, couldn't get them to put the props right on the Herk

I told them that a year ago Smudge!

Then again I was at Hendon a couple of weeks back and the explanation for the outboard roughened leading edge of the JP5A was just plain wrong.


It appears that the RAF Museum peeps are far from knowledgeable when it comes to RAF aircraft!

[Flight_Idle]

Then again I was at Hendon a couple of weeks back and the explanation for the outboard roughened leading edge of the JP5A was just plain wrong.

I wonder what their explanation was?

Having prepared many 'Strikemasters' for air tests, it was not unusual for the aircraft to drop a wing in the stall, then adjustments had to be made.

Occasionally, the problem persisted & after about 10 to 12 unsuccessful air tests, it would be decided to give the aircraft 'The order of the 'Camrex'.

Camrex being the very rough leading edge paint. It acted as a sort of 'Vortex generator' & usually cured the wing drop.

.............

First flight Sedburg T21

First powered flight Chipmunk

First solo T31

First time above clouds, Herk (I spilt my coffee)

[smujsmith]

Flight- idle (Stephanie),

There'll not be many can have had a first flight where they spilled their coffee

Having started to read the smashing series on F4 flying in "the Nam" by Mark Berent, currently on Steel Tiger, I'm curious about how it worked for pilots with the "toom". It seems to me the aircraft was a natural for pilot training, in that it was built with two crew places so the instructor pilot could sit in the back seat for the training sorties. But, on the big day, did the instructor simply get out of the back seat, pat you on the bonedome and say, "orf you go then young ginger, a quick circuit and don't bend the kite", or did you need a Nav/wizzo in the back, for ballast if nothing else. I bet someone knows ?

Smudge

[Flight_Idle]

There'll not be many can have had a first flight where they spilled their coffee

Yes, I remember the old days, two erks on the flight deck doing a low level run over Colerne in a Herk, happy days!

The ATC was good for giving folks three quick solos, but the RAFGSA taught us the basics of flying.

I suppose old erks go in different ways & all the better for it!

Stephanie.

[Not a Crew Chief]

I see there's quite few Dragon Rapides mentioned. Mine was late 50's at Blackpool aged about 3 or 4. Didn't know I'd be jumping out of one years later. Several Chippie trips as a cadet, always asked for aeros, and night navex in a Varsity. Flying lessons at Laarbruch convinced me that ground crew was the right choice so happy to get 5000 odd hours in the back of VC10's and Tristars.
Smuj, must have crossed paths with you down route or earlier at Halton

[smujsmith]

Flight idle,

Very apt as far as gliding goes. Getting some time in a jet was often more of a challenge. But not impossible for the "keen" SLF. Cranwell JP second line. Our team had at least one flight test per month. None of my fellow tradesmen were particularly keen on flying, so "volunteering" to accompany the UTP and fill in the Flight Test sheet was an easy way to gain some hours. Bulldogs and Chipmunks on Oxford UAS and 6AEF were usually a matter of asking the QFI if he would mind a bit of company on his SCT. I won a trip in an F5 Lightning in Cyprus, for working my guts out in the tyre bay on a 4 ship Air Defence det to Malta. OC 56 presented me with an engraved tankard to celebrate the first time they did not have to lose a slot due to lack of serviceable wheels. It was a no brainer really, work overnight, full set for morning, 3 hours kip, back to the bay and have all the spares ready for the afternoon session. I managed to beg a lift home for my wedding with a 9 Squadron crew who were delivering a flat iron to St Athan for servicing. I shall be forever grateful hours of darkness followed by a long hitch hike from South Wales to Leicestershire (and then I got married again).

I would like to convince myself that I've flown in everything I worked on, but there are some that remained denied to my lust for flight. PA474, was one example. 6 months refurbishing the great machines wings, and it would have been a crime to deny a couple of the lads their chance of a flight in the raffle. I still have an authorisation to carry out Engine Ground Testing on the Lancaster in my Record of Tradesmens experience, signed by Pete Rushen. I think the one I would have given my soul for was the Buccaneer. Low level, what a magnificent beast. I've been very lucky in my time and had some great experiences. Every flight in a new type was a first flight for me. Hence the reason for the OP, I wondered whether other ex Groundcrew had experiences as I had, and mainly, what our Aircrew colleagues felt about both first solo's in training and first flights on type.

As a subject, first solo's have to be a worthy subject, most people react differently to the situation and obviously being an experienced, trained pilot doing a first flight in a Tornado, must differ from the winch launch 3 minutes , land then realise the other bloke just got out. Sorry to be long winded chaps, I think I'm needing a restrictor fitted to the verbosity valve. Thanks for all the posts on this thread, it's opened my eyes a little into a world (professional flying) that I would have dearly liked to be part of.

Smudge

[BEagle]

First flight - Piper Caribbean Lulsgate 1962.

First flight in a Service aeroplane - Sea Vixen FAW2 Yeovilton 1966.

Apart from 3 min in a Slingsby Tutor at RAF Locking, my first single seat solo was in the Hunter GT6:

The lovely Hunter ‘GT6’ was my favourite ever aeroplane. Take a standard Hunter F Mk 6, remove the heavy 4 x 30mm Aden gun pack and the draggy ‘Sabrina’ link collectors, add a TACAN so at least you know where you are, then paint the whole thing in go-faster high gloss ‘raspberry ripple’ polyurethane paint and there you have it.

During 1975, I’d finished my Gnat course and had been holding awaiting a pre-Tactical Weapons Unit Hunter course. When the course started, it was a few days’ groundschool, some simulator trips and then on to the Hunter T Mk 7, otherwise known as the ‘barge’. After the compact Gnat with its central warning system, Hobson motor pitch system and OR 946 instrumentation, the ‘barge’ was a real backward step - and it seemed as big as an airliner! But after passing the simulator check and the T7 dual rides, finally the day came on 9 Dec 75 to fly a real single seat fighter for the first time!

Get kitted up in goon suit and anti-‘g’ suit, then out to the aeroplane parked on ‘Hunter beach’ at Valley. Walk round, prod, poke, squint, then up the ladder and into the cockpit. ‘Fitz’, a CFS trapper visiting 4FTS keeps a fatherly eye on proceedings from the top of the ladder as I truss myself into a maze of webbing which would satisfy the most earnest bondage fetishist. Finally it’s time to lift the gangbar and turn on the batteries. First surprise - there’s no intercom sidetone. Because, of course, there’s no-one to talk to in a single-seater, stupid! Do the checks then wave finger at the groundcrew and Press the Button......

The Avpin starter works as advertised and the smell of burnt iso-propyl-nitrate fills the air. But all is well, gennies on, radio on, IFF on, power controls on. ‘Fitz’ smiles and disappears, the ladder is removed and it’s time to call for taxy. Next surprise, it’s so much easier to taxy than the T7 and before long I’m at the holding point. Take-off clearance received, it's on to RW32 and off we go. Power up, quick stir of the controls then set top left and off we go. A brief ‘da-da-da-da’ from the bleed valves and initial acceleration seems much like it was in the T7. But then the extra oomph of the big 200-series Avon makes itself felt and there’s an almighty roar from somewhere behind as the IAS increases rapidly. Suddenly we’re airborne - Brakes on, gear up, flaps up, gear lights out, pressurisation master on.....then at 500ft start the right turn onto 140° to intercept the 100° radial. But we’re already passing 1000 ft and going like a train! Throttle to max continuous and adjust to 370 KIAS - except we’re already doing over 400! Pitch up, nail the speed, there’s the radial, turn left breathe out. ATC ask whether I’m ever going to change to Approach frequency!

Oops, to Stud 2 then up the radial towards FL 200. At around 10 000 ft, I remember to set 1013..... Finally catch up with the beast at FL 200 and check position. How can I be so far away from base already? Aim in a safe direction, think ‘OK - let’s see what she’ll do’ - set max continuous and M0.9something comes up amazingly quickly. Tweak the control column back and the altimeter goes bananas - as do ATC as I’m in the upper airspace without clearance! Then settle down to some aeros and max rate turns before aiming back at Valley for a QGH to PAR. That all goes OK, so I roll and then out go to initials for a visual run-in-and-break. Overtake a couple of Gnats, call ‘initials’, then idle power, airbrake out....70-80° angle of bank and 23° flap on the break. Roll out, airbrake in, gear down - and the controls go all stiff as the hydraulic pump can’t cope with both things together. So a bit of power and all is well. Call ‘final’, 38° flap and pitch into the final turn. Then full flap, slow down to Vat plus 10 and another nice roller. Full power - lovely loud noise - another circuit and it’s time to land. Turn off, taxy in and shut down, grinning from ear to ear.

My logbook says 'December 10 1975 Hunter F6 XF386 Self / Solo Ex RF4 0:50 First Pilot (Captain), 0:05 actual IF, QGH/PAR, 3 landings.' But that hardly describes such an experience! And what of XF386? She lived on for nearly 20 more years before being scrapped at Otterburn in 1996 after 40 years loyal service. A cruel death for such a lovely lady - I hope she’s up there in Hunter heaven.......

[simon brown]

First slipped the surly bonds in March 1980 Chippy at Filton AEF...must dig out my old air cadet 3822 would be interesting if It was WK562 mentioned earlier. Looking up at the Severn Estuary was not the best idea on my first ever flight.
3 months later at Lyneham annual camp 12 hours on a Herc...couldn't give away the hours that camp. 'Oy Browner want another few hours flying? No thanks sir I'd rather share a dustbin with a rockband'

[polecat2]

Not my first flight but probably my most memorable was as a pax in a Dominie for the Queen's Royal Review at Finningley in 1977. A great honour for a Cpl A Tech E as I was then.

Polecat

[smujsmith]

Not a Crew Chief,

Yep, I suspect any crossing paths may have been at Akrotiri, GW1. ISTR both VC10 and Herk GEs supplementing the TASF lads. First time I ever got to help turn the worlds finest Transport Aircraft round. Most of you 10 guys weren't so taken with Albert though

Failing that Halton for me was 214 Entry Jan 69 to March 71. We were lucky people getting employed as Ground Engineers, IMHO, and I believe even if only admitted in private, most GEs loved their opportunity to fly, and become involved in any way the could. Some great characters to experience it with as well.

Beags,

That Hunter sounds awesome. Advanced airframes at Halton in my day was the Hunter. I can't tell you how proud I felt having returned home on leave in the early evening, to be able to tell my old schoolmates I had been working on the Hunter up until lunchtime. I never let on that they were ground use airframes though. I believe they were sold to the Swiss Air Force from Halton. I always take the opportunity to get over to Kemble whenever I can if they are flying those beauties.

Smudge

[Tankertrashnav]

Another Dragon Rapide here. Prestwick, c 1958, for 10 bob saved up from my pocket money and long anticipated. Got a shaky black and white box Brownie snapshot stuck in the back of my logbook to commemorate the event.

Half hour in a De Havilland Rapide from St Just, Cornwall, in 1968

I remember seeing those two Rapides doing a low flyby as we were going to the Scillies on the Scillonian, around 1960. Other St Just connection, did my first solo there in a C152 at age 62!