RAF VC10 - Great Memories

[SRENNAPS]

You had to get permission from Ops for a run, talking to Ground was a courtesy

Sorry mate, but the way I remember it back in 78-81 you spoke to Brize Ground to be able to move across to the tubes. Once there they then got permission from Ops for you to do the ground run. You (as a bunch of engineers) did not need to go straight to Ops to get permission for a ground run; they had far more important things to look after. One thing you did not do was fall out with any of the controllers as they had the ability to control how long it took you to get back to Base Hangar. Anyway, I found out later in the “Pigs Bar” that they loved our conversation and I could do no wrong after that.
You must have been on LSS……………!!

P.S. RB211 is an engine, RD211 is a freak Robot out of Star Wars

[NutLoose]

I was, we would call OPS on the landline to let them know, then call them up again as we commenced the run, ground as said was a courtesy, 99% of the runs I carried out would be where ever it sat with no need to move anywhere about 84-89. Managed to avoid the delights of Base Hangar, even going off the do a JT course I came back onto the same shift, our F/Sgt got me back to Brize and found they were sending me to Base he went and kicked up a fuss and got me back on shift..... Good lad

We would often do parallel starts on nights so needed the ok for those. BTW we only destroyed one engine on the detuner

Corrected my Star Wars blunder

[Blanket Stacker]

VC10s were still operating from Lyneham in early 68,albeit positioning from Brize.

On another point BUA trooping flights from Gatwick to Aden went direct; my first posting!

[NutLoose]

If they haven't ripped those God awful wooden built in wardrobes in the singly blocks out, I pulled a draw out and underneath was a copy of the RAF News announcing the VC10 arrival at Brize, we read it in the 80's then I put it back )

[sisemen]

On another point BUA trooping flights from Gatwick to Aden went direct

Depends what the load was. On my trip to Aden we went via Muharraq.

And talking of ground runs for the Funbus.....

It was not very pleasant living in MQ in Hastings Drive and having the mighty beast doing run ups up to midnight on that pan just between Base Hangar and Electronics a mere 500 yards away (it seemed a LOT closer) particularly when one had to work in the morning and two young kids trying to sleep!

[SRENNAPS]

I pulled a draw out and underneath was a copy of the RAF News announcing the VC10 arrival at Brize, we read it in the 80's then I put it back )

Bet you wished you had kept it now to be able to scan and post it on this thread

[NutLoose]

Yep sigh, even then it was a rare survivor, I still have a couple of Gateway mags from Gorbies visit etc and 10 Sqns anniversary.

[Davita]

I just remembered something about 10Sqn RAF. I was on the fleet when they promoted all VC10 Captains to acting Sqn. Ldrs. ......well, those who were not S/Ls already.
It created a lot of controversy and some humour at the time...does anyone know if that continued?

I was on a flight once with one of our newly badged Captains and the AOC of Transport Comm....correction...Air Support Command, sat in the jump seat.
He commented on this policy and asked our opinion. Our Nav was a S/L and I (F/E) was a F/L
Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

I turned the cockpit temperature down a notch as it seemed to get quite hot!!!

[Union Jack]

I just remembered something about 10Sqn RAF. I was on the fleet when they promoted all VC10 Captains to acting Sqn. Ldrs. ......well, those who were not S/Ls already.
It created a lot of controversy and some humour at the time...does anyone know if that continued?

BEagle!?

Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

Freudian slip?

Jack

[NutLoose]

I think it ceased when the last civilian VC10's were purchased by the RAF.
Didn't the AOC know he was called AL?

[ICM]

I believe I'm right in saying that the Acting Sqn Ldr business was stopped in 1980.

At this distance, it may just be worth recalling that it was simply one outcome of an AFB decision in 1968, driven by a concern at the time over retention and undermanning. More Sqn Ldr flight commander posts were created on squadrons, and Acting Sqn Ldr also applied to Captains in the Comet fleet - the latter perhaps largely forgotten as the numbers concerned were small and the force was withdrawn from service after the mid-70s Defence Review. But there's no denying that the policy was most visible for some years in the left-hand seats of the VC 10.

[bingofuel]

Was the third ring on the epaulette not called the "ring of confidence" with regard to 10 sqn Captains ?

[Davita]

QUOTES
Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

Freudian slip?

Didn't the AOC know he was called AL?
Unqoute.

They knew each other well...the name change was in context to the conversation....Freudian perhaps but no slip....intended indeed!

Do RAF aircrew now have wings/brevets on KD uniform or shirts? I see they do on those blue jump suits originally stolen (sorry, borrowed) from the USAF and that is what is worn when flying but, in those days, we wore collar and tie and shiny shoes, unless destined for the tropics. There our uniforms became a mixed bag of KD usually made by any tailor in Changi village/Kowloon and coupled them with desert (chukka) boots.
Not very uniform at all.

[Dan Gerous]

Last flight?

Link showing VC10 doing touch and goes at Prestwick on Thursday. The refuelling pods are off the wings, but were on, on Tuesday, when it flew over Cosford

FighterControl ? Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast ? View topic - VC10 XR808 At Prestwick 11/07/13

[Davita]

I cannot recall that the RAF purchased any civilian VC10's. I flew on the very first RAF VC10 that came from Vickers (BAC) and it was purposefully built for the RAF. The original contract for VC10's did not have any military connection but when that contract 'expired' the RAF tasked the manufacturer to a military requirement...no civilian conversion, to my knowledge, took place.
I did ground training and flight simulator at Cranebank on the BOAC Super VC10 but then had to do the conversion to the RAF model. It was very different.

An aside story was when I was on an RAF team assigned to write the VC10 'landing on water' checklist, or something like that. The team chairman was a seconded USAF pilot (Major Massingham). His previous experience was useful until he introduced the idea of using the fire axe to stab the wing and tie a safety line to assist overwing exodus. I jokingly bet him US$100 to make the attempt. He declined when I reminded him of our visit to Weybridge where we saw them mill the VC10 structure wing out of solid aluminium (he called it aluminum); it was unlike all other aircraft structures we had previously experienced, which use sheet panels rivetted to ribs.

Thanks to Dan Gerous for those memorable pictures....I lost all my logbooks to white ants but must have flown many hours on 808 as an F/E. The only momento I have today is the picture of XV104 presented to me when I left 241 OCU at Brize Norton. XV104 was used primarily for the conversion to VIP role in those days.
So thanks again for those memories.

[Nugget90]

XV 104 Photograph

Davita's comment regarding the photograph of XV 104 reminds me of the one I was given when I left 10 Sqn.

If his is the same as mine, then I can add that I was the co-pilot in XV 104 on 11 April 1972 when we were photographed flying over the Scilly Isles whilst formating with a Hercules that contained a Service photographer. Sqn Ldr Ward was the captain and we were airborne for 4 hours.

[peppermint_jam]

Many happy memories of the funbus as it was usually my ticket home from somewhere sandy. Apart from when it left us in Akrotiri with 3 dead GR4's. needed some new t-shirts anyway......



Will see what other photos I can dig up.

[ICM]

Davita: Just a small name correction - your USAF pilot would have been Major Bobby Massingill, the first USAF exchange Captain in the VC 10 years. You may recognise him from this:



He was later my Boss when I did part of my own exchange tour at Travis on the Wing staff in the early 70s, and the connection continued in a way when I arrived at Brize for my VC 10 course. Major Jerry Poole was there to take up the pilot exchange slot on 10 Sqn - and Jerry had been in the same Wing office with me.

[Davita]

Quote.... I was lead to believe that the VC10 was second only in speed to Concorde. With Concorde having retired, is the "10" now the fastest again ?
Smudge....Unqoute.

I remember that the RAF VC10 originally had three speeds depending on range required...I recall Mach O.88 or 0.86 or 0.84 and the VNE was 0.94.
The airline I joined had Convair 880's and I was told the 990 model cruised around Mach 0.9.
I later flew on B707/320C at only M 0.78 but that was around the time oil prices shot up and reduced cruise speed became the norm.

My other recollection was the VC10 speed had to be closely monitored as its Hi-Tail had the tendecy to Dutch Roll at altitude. I think it had 3 separate Yaw Dampers as this could be critical. There was also a concern for the very close margin between hi and lo-speed stall. It also had auto-relight in case the rear engines became air-blocked and stalled.

Anyone else have better info on this speed concern at altitude?

EDIT
Thanks for the correction ICM...That is indeed the gentleman although I think the pic must have been taken a little bit before I met him. Also, I heard that he was murdered by a mugger when back in California...hope I'm wrong.

Was Jerry Poole a tall lanky guy who became the local Carterton darts champion?

[BEagle]

I remember that the RAF VC10 originally had three speeds depending on range required...I recall Mach O.88 or 0.86 or 0.84 and the VNE was 0.94.
The airline I joined had Convair 880's and I was told the 990 model cruised around Mach 0.9.

I later flew on B707/320C at only M 0.78 but that was around the time oil prices shot up and reduced cruise speed became the norm.

My other recollection was the VC10 speed had to be closely monitored as its Hi-Tail had the tendecy to Dutch Roll at altitude. I think it had 3 separate Yaw Dampers as this could be critical. There was also a concern for the very close margin between hi and lo-speed stall. It also had auto-relight in case the rear engines became air-blocked and stalled.

1. A cruise IMN of M0.88 was quite possible, but used HUGE amounts of fuel.
2. The VC10 had 3 yaw dampers, but normally only 2 were used; in any case, Dutch Roll (a consequence of high sweepback, dhedral effect and fin area) was easily contained by 1 yaw damper. There was no requirement to remain alert for the onset of Dutch Roll.
3. The VC10 used to be certified to fly at weights/heights where there was a mere ±10 knot margin from the high and low +1.2G buffet onset speeds. In later years, a more prudent +1.35G was used rather than +1.2G.
4. Auto-ignition was triggered by an AoA probe and was the first indication of excessively low speed.

The Convair Coronado was quicker (just), but I don't think that it ever flew on transatlantic schedules.

Of the RAF's VC10 fleet, 14 aircraft were ex-civil. 5 from BOAC, 4 from EAAC and 4 from ba.