Any rumours on FRIs?
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Any rumours on FRIs?
Has anyone heard any rumours on whether the FRIs for Flt Lt and Sqn Ldr pilots will be continued? I know the uptake of PAS this year and last wasn't exactly high; might this have an impact?
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Even if there is, can't think that it will be big enough to make a difference to most. The bucket of poo is most definately fuller than the bucket of gold....
I have heard rumours of fri4 being mulled, but no detail. Can't imagine it until past the NEM consultation and announcements and certainly not till the next election
I have heard rumours of fri4 being mulled, but no detail. Can't imagine it until past the NEM consultation and announcements and certainly not till the next election
Last edited by VinRouge; 22nd Jun 2013 at 08:16.
I can confirm that the aircrew FRIs have stopped. I guess we have to pretend to be surprised with what happens next...
With such a small cadre even a small increase in our loss rate will have a disproportionate effect.
My own decision to continue for a bit longer was influenced by PAS terms and an FRI. As I draw to the end of my RoS the system will probably expect me to leave and that is fine with me. I have no idea as to why the system expects the next generation to replace me at such a bargain-bucket price.
With such a small cadre even a small increase in our loss rate will have a disproportionate effect.
My own decision to continue for a bit longer was influenced by PAS terms and an FRI. As I draw to the end of my RoS the system will probably expect me to leave and that is fine with me. I have no idea as to why the system expects the next generation to replace me at such a bargain-bucket price.
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I think the Manning cadre are a bit hamstrung until the bosses officially extend the comms fleet and predator beyond a UOR for Afghanistan.
That's what's stopping an FRI. On paper we don't have a manning problem....
That's what's stopping an FRI. On paper we don't have a manning problem....
theboywide,
Very good point; we have far too many posts on the black economy. We may pretend that Reaper / Shadow / Sentinel are not core capabilities so do not need to budgeted for in terms of aircrew posts but they soak-up huge numbers. This is particularly true for Reaper which must have 80+ aircrew. The run-on of 'legacy' fleets does not come for free either.
Very good point; we have far too many posts on the black economy. We may pretend that Reaper / Shadow / Sentinel are not core capabilities so do not need to budgeted for in terms of aircrew posts but they soak-up huge numbers. This is particularly true for Reaper which must have 80+ aircrew. The run-on of 'legacy' fleets does not come for free either.
As Manning appear to have run out of aircrew (pilots predominantly) altogether, and many ground posts being left gapped or given away to 'Any' surely any Future FRI should also include WSOs?
Last edited by Could be the last?; 22nd Jun 2013 at 14:09.
We may not have a manning problem (on paper; although Future Force 2020 says we'll maintain "a number" of UAVs, and one breakdown I've seen talks about 2 RPA sqns; coincidentally what we have now; so you can certainly include Reaper in the conversation), but surely we have an experience problem?
Rumour I heard about PAS was a sub-10% acceptance rate, and generally it was only those who were already tied to 2-3 year ROS deals who were taking it. And why not, it adds a bit of benefit then, if you're only really looking at serving for an extra 2 years after your ROS!
Rumour I heard about PAS was a sub-10% acceptance rate, and generally it was only those who were already tied to 2-3 year ROS deals who were taking it. And why not, it adds a bit of benefit then, if you're only really looking at serving for an extra 2 years after your ROS!
Colloquial at best, but I know 15 people who were offered it and 2 who accepted. A colleague was told that there were 150 offers from the board and 9 accepted, but I don't know where he got that from.
So where are the big manning gaps? I think the Reaper Force, from my recent exposure to it, would benefit from an FRI. It's hard work and people don't seem to want to stay.
Got to ring-fence some WSOs now, seeing as we can't train any more? Worth keeping some SAR guys in case the contract move doesn't happen smoothly? What about QFIs, considering I hear we're going to start training Saudis?
Got to ring-fence some WSOs now, seeing as we can't train any more? Worth keeping some SAR guys in case the contract move doesn't happen smoothly? What about QFIs, considering I hear we're going to start training Saudis?
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Maybe want to consider the fact that we now have a cadre of low budget UAV only pilots coming through to free up the proper pilots to do the cockpit jobs.
This will also have an impact on the FRI as its at least 30 or so seats that can easily be filled with not a huge training burden.
Much as i'd like to think its about hard work, the FRI is purely a numbers game. If the balance sheet for pilots vs seats is negative and there are no other lateral solutions to the problem, then they will throw money at then problem, but not until then. My impression is we're not there yet on paper. The shop floor paints a different picture but....
This will also have an impact on the FRI as its at least 30 or so seats that can easily be filled with not a huge training burden.
Much as i'd like to think its about hard work, the FRI is purely a numbers game. If the balance sheet for pilots vs seats is negative and there are no other lateral solutions to the problem, then they will throw money at then problem, but not until then. My impression is we're not there yet on paper. The shop floor paints a different picture but....
Last edited by theboywide; 22nd Jun 2013 at 18:50.
I think it's probably a bit of a leap to assume that 2 RPA sqns will eventually be filled with just Fg(RPASP) people. I guess there'll always be a few regular Fg(P) people there too.
Biggest issue with that is that other than the already-commissioned test cases, I don't think there's been a single person interviewed or selected to join the specialisation. The training's still the best part of 2-3 years by the time you include IOT, so we're a long way from cutting up the Reaper Force and sending all those pilots back to cockpits.
Biggest issue with that is that other than the already-commissioned test cases, I don't think there's been a single person interviewed or selected to join the specialisation. The training's still the best part of 2-3 years by the time you include IOT, so we're a long way from cutting up the Reaper Force and sending all those pilots back to cockpits.
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the problem has been alluded to earlier, the cadre is much smaller and any significant future outflow, say to pickup on the outside, is going to be grim for numbers on the inside.
The most skilled cadres will tend to go first, which will further exeracerbate the situation...
The most skilled cadres will tend to go first, which will further exeracerbate the situation...
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But that's fundamentally how they work isn't it?
The notion that there should be a FRI else people will leave is a false one. People have to leave to justify one. Which is why they are only a sticky plaster - i.e. staunch the blood once its flowing at a rate worth staunching.
Equally one can't really countenance a FRI offered to SAR chaps on the off chance that stated policy doesn't come off. T'would be tantamount to declaring stated policy as being wrong. Errr, about that!
Not saying I agree with either notion - but I won't struggle to find a bean counter who does.
The notion that there should be a FRI else people will leave is a false one. People have to leave to justify one. Which is why they are only a sticky plaster - i.e. staunch the blood once its flowing at a rate worth staunching.
Equally one can't really countenance a FRI offered to SAR chaps on the off chance that stated policy doesn't come off. T'would be tantamount to declaring stated policy as being wrong. Errr, about that!
Not saying I agree with either notion - but I won't struggle to find a bean counter who does.
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5 forward 6 back has it spot on regarding the Fg(RPAS) branch. We're a few years away from having the first people come through the door of an AFCO before they hit the front line (and I don't think anyone has come through yet as there is no system / selection criteria for them).
Post 2015 is the key here. Until we know that, the manning plot isn't clear to anyone IMO......
Post 2015 is the key here. Until we know that, the manning plot isn't clear to anyone IMO......
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Where does sense of duty/ service enter the equation
When I joined pay was the last thing I considered.
It is a shame the old sense of Pride in our country and Armed Services has been undermined by the need to understand the cost of everything and a desire to dig your nose as deep into the trough as is possible.
The value of being in a team, achieving your full potential and serving your country seem to have been eroded to the point of non-existence.
FRI is the bluntest of tools, is very decisive and should be removed as a retention tool.
It is a shame the old sense of Pride in our country and Armed Services has been undermined by the need to understand the cost of everything and a desire to dig your nose as deep into the trough as is possible.
The value of being in a team, achieving your full potential and serving your country seem to have been eroded to the point of non-existence.
FRI is the bluntest of tools, is very decisive and should be removed as a retention tool.
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PT....very sweet, I would guess that your world is set in the 1950s and you live in a 'chocolate box' cottage with roses round the door. Regrettably the RAF is reaping what it sowed by the removal of any loyalty to the individuals that joined to serve rather than as just another 'job'. It didn't take long for that to translate into the erosion of loyalty from the individual to the RAF. Much is talked about 'valuing' our servicemen, however, when the talk is not backed up by action the expectation wears a bit thin. 
Regrettably the RAF is reaping what it sowed by the removal of any loyalty to the individuals that joined to serve rather than as just another 'job'. It didn't take long for that to translate into the erosion of loyalty from the individual to the RAF. Much is talked about 'valuing' our servicemen, however, when the talk is not backed up by action the expectation wears a bit thin.