Best years are gone
And like all progress there is little scope for reverting to what had gone before.
It always has to be "We have made great progress with these changes, but there is room for further improvement"..which will mostly, but ineffectively, try to reproduce what we had before.
When many years ago people wanted the money back for food etc there was no means to do so unless you were a shifty and could claim x amount of days food monies back. With the introduction of JPA everybody had the facilty to claim missed meals back etc. So by default the chaps who wanted the cash could claim it back and then PAYD came along, "Shennaningans"
PAYD is could value for what you spend in real terms however the quality and portions leave a lot ot be desired. After being told what i clould have and couldnt have for breakfast I just said fill my plate and i will pay what it costs, " We can't do that you have to have the core or a la carte"
Most staff are leaving and the rest going on strike, and with hardly any RAF Chefs leftwho will cook then? "
Sorry chaps by a microwave and fend for your selves the regs have had to change regarding cooking in your Mess !!!!
PAYD is could value for what you spend in real terms however the quality and portions leave a lot ot be desired. After being told what i clould have and couldnt have for breakfast I just said fill my plate and i will pay what it costs, " We can't do that you have to have the core or a la carte"
Most staff are leaving and the rest going on strike, and with hardly any RAF Chefs leftwho will cook then? "
Sorry chaps by a microwave and fend for your selves the regs have had to change regarding cooking in your Mess !!!!
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500N
Absolutely it should be as easy as that. The trouble is, as seams to be the way with our modern world, we have become too wrapped up in clever management double speak and processes. Politicians can't tell us now what changes they are going to make without wrapping it up as "going forward". We have lost the ability to do the simple. Laughable if it wasn't so sad.
Absolutely it should be as easy as that. The trouble is, as seams to be the way with our modern world, we have become too wrapped up in clever management double speak and processes. Politicians can't tell us now what changes they are going to make without wrapping it up as "going forward". We have lost the ability to do the simple. Laughable if it wasn't so sad.
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"We have lost the ability to do the simple."
Very true. A bit like the old copper "clipping him across the ear"
which was simple, effective and often solved both the problem
at the time and future one's !
The good effect of RO's (Routine Order's) was that they were "catch all"
and if the CSM needed something fixed without spending ages trying
to do it, he got the OC to put it in RO's. And god help anyone who broke
them, JO's included !
"We have lost the ability to do the simple."
Very true. A bit like the old copper "clipping him across the ear"
which was simple, effective and often solved both the problem
at the time and future one's !
The good effect of RO's (Routine Order's) was that they were "catch all"
and if the CSM needed something fixed without spending ages trying
to do it, he got the OC to put it in RO's. And god help anyone who broke
them, JO's included !
PAYD was being implemented as I was leaving and i fought against it from my lowly position as a SNCO tooth and nail. It was always going to turn into a pay as you starve scheme and I repeatedly warned the troops that their food was about to be provided by a civilian company interested in one thing - Profit.
There was a thread on PAYD on here at the time, and the vast majority were all for its implementation because they were adults etc etc.
Looks like it turned into the crock of sh^^ it was always destined to become and everyone headed to Comet for a toaster. Is the banning of said toasters a cack handed way of forcing folk back into the mess? - the cynic in me says maybe.
There was a thread on PAYD on here at the time, and the vast majority were all for its implementation because they were adults etc etc.
Looks like it turned into the crock of sh^^ it was always destined to become and everyone headed to Comet for a toaster. Is the banning of said toasters a cack handed way of forcing folk back into the mess? - the cynic in me says maybe.
So, kitchen raids at 2am are no longer done because the food's not worth eating?
Well, that's one way to stop casual crime.
I can still remember my first descent about 20 feet down a 'borrowed' rope ladder for an illicit steak after a late night bar session on an overseas base, secure in the knowledge that my only risk of annoying the Stn Cdr was if I let go, as I would have landed on him.
Well, that's one way to stop casual crime.
I can still remember my first descent about 20 feet down a 'borrowed' rope ladder for an illicit steak after a late night bar session on an overseas base, secure in the knowledge that my only risk of annoying the Stn Cdr was if I let go, as I would have landed on him.
Skeleton
The great thing about PPRuNe is the archive. Below is a link to one thread in the archive (there are quite a few more). Not many in favour here, but it is interesting to note that many of the predictions back then have become reality.
PAYD thread from 05
There was a thread on PAYD on here at the time, and the vast majority were all for its implementation because they were adults etc etc.
PAYD thread from 05
I'm well out of the military loop but this behaviour sounds familiar.
Once upon a time my kid's school canteen was handed over to Scolarest, the French arm of Compass Group, who promptly reduced portion size and probably produced the worst school meals in France.... To cater for the increasing grumbles from (and about) hungry tummies it was decided the kids could buy snacks from the school shop.... When the kids got round this by bringing in their own snacks the head teacher promptly banned "self catering"....We were never able to find out if the Head teacher had bowed to external pressure....
Is there any possibility the Compass Group are involved in PAYD?
Once upon a time my kid's school canteen was handed over to Scolarest, the French arm of Compass Group, who promptly reduced portion size and probably produced the worst school meals in France.... To cater for the increasing grumbles from (and about) hungry tummies it was decided the kids could buy snacks from the school shop.... When the kids got round this by bringing in their own snacks the head teacher promptly banned "self catering"....We were never able to find out if the Head teacher had bowed to external pressure....
Is there any possibility the Compass Group are involved in PAYD?
Last edited by wiggy; 20th Jun 2013 at 06:32.
These PAYD contractors should be forced to visit the Luftwaffe's Air Terminal at Köln/Wahn! Excellent food, good portions, very good prices!
Even the old cafeteria was good, but the new one is truly superb.
Mind you, I think that some of the folk employed are actually conscripts doing their 6 months of national service. Thye readily volunteer for the job as it sets them up well for restaurant work when they leave.
The worst food I remember in the RAF was Shaw-Porter's contractor catering at the Officers' Mess, White Watham in the earlly 1970s. Truly dreadful.
Even the old cafeteria was good, but the new one is truly superb.
Mind you, I think that some of the folk employed are actually conscripts doing their 6 months of national service. Thye readily volunteer for the job as it sets them up well for restaurant work when they leave.
The worst food I remember in the RAF was Shaw-Porter's contractor catering at the Officers' Mess, White Watham in the earlly 1970s. Truly dreadful.
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I'm at a tri-service base at the moment and Pay-As-You-Starve here is 
'ing awful.
The last meal I had there was "pork" that looked like it had been reared on a farm just outside of Chernobyl - never eaten something with so many lumps and stringy horrendous bits in it. Throw it into a dark room, it'd probably have glowed and then slithered away. Coupled with the tiny portions, it does, as many have already said, leave much to be desired. Unless you go to the NAAFI (expensive and mostly processed rubbish) your only other option is a 2 mile walk to the nearest Waitrose (I dont keep a car on camp).
It amazes me how there has been this massive push on physical fitness in recent years within the forces, but the nutrition to support it has seemingly vanished. I'm getting heavily into my fitness these days (why not, sod all else to do!) and I'm lucky if I can get the nutrition I need to support my exercise.
I've joined at a really wank time, havent I?
'ing awful.The last meal I had there was "pork" that looked like it had been reared on a farm just outside of Chernobyl - never eaten something with so many lumps and stringy horrendous bits in it. Throw it into a dark room, it'd probably have glowed and then slithered away. Coupled with the tiny portions, it does, as many have already said, leave much to be desired. Unless you go to the NAAFI (expensive and mostly processed rubbish) your only other option is a 2 mile walk to the nearest Waitrose (I dont keep a car on camp).
It amazes me how there has been this massive push on physical fitness in recent years within the forces, but the nutrition to support it has seemingly vanished. I'm getting heavily into my fitness these days (why not, sod all else to do!) and I'm lucky if I can get the nutrition I need to support my exercise.
I've joined at a really wank time, havent I?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I don't know if this model still exists, but in the O-Club at Keflavik in the wardroom at tea time (dinner for them) you could get the dish-of-the day for about $1.95. If you chose the steak it might have been $4.95. The next day the dish-of-the-day might be the same steak at $1.95.
The caters had the opportunity to bulk prepare one meal and do a la carte for anything else. The all-ranks mess OTOH was open to all.
What was different about that wardroom however was the kitchen was turned over to wardroom employees who would then cook pizzas, burgers etc to order throughout the evening. These club employees were regular duty seamen moonlighting for extra cash.
The caters had the opportunity to bulk prepare one meal and do a la carte for anything else. The all-ranks mess OTOH was open to all.
What was different about that wardroom however was the kitchen was turned over to wardroom employees who would then cook pizzas, burgers etc to order throughout the evening. These club employees were regular duty seamen moonlighting for extra cash.
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Once upon a time my kid's school canteen was handed over to Scolarest, the French arm of Compass Group, who promptly reduced portion size and probably produced the worst school meals in France.... To cater for the increasing grumbles from (and about) hungry tummies it was decided the kids could buy snacks from the school shop.... When the kids got round this by bringing in their own snacks the head teacher promptly banned "self catering"....We were never able to find out if the Head teacher had bowed to external pressure....
No chance of the Stn Cdrs saying enough is enough and taking back control of the kitchens? Granted not many military chefs left now so would need to be civilians. Would look excellent on OC Catering CV
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Mess Life
It amazes me how there has been this massive push on physical fitness in recent years within the forces, but the nutrition to support it has seemingly vanished.
It is a real shame that mess life and the incredible catering that I experienced in my 16 years has declined to such a level.
The great thing about PPRuNe is the archive. Below is a link to one thread in the archive (there are quite a few more). Not many in favour here, but it is interesting to note that many of the predictions back then have become reality.
Last edited by Skeleton; 20th Jun 2013 at 12:30.
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At a leafy Headquarters, in order to relieve the hunger of the inhabitants due to the small portion sizes, they are introducing vending machines into the SLA, full of crisps and chocolate for one to purchase from. All provided by the catering contractor....... Promoting a healthy lifestyle? I don't think so.....
Promoting a healthy lifestyle? I don't think so.....
Gentleman Aviator
vending machines into the SLA, full of crisps and chocolate
I hear ya'll but I have to say at the tri-service base where I work (near Watford), the PAYD food is generally superb - in the O's Mess. I also was very impressed with the meals during a recent stay in the mess at Lossie.
Maybe I'm just lucky!
Maybe I'm just lucky!
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Originally Posted by Skeleton
PAYD was wanted by almost all of the single folk i came into contact with at the time. PAYD was not forced on anyone, It was what the vast majority asked for and got.
But then it is naive to think we have any influence on a cost saving measure! It would have been forced in and made to work regardless of the facts. The powers that be would have decided they want PAYD before they even conducted any polls.
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No it wasn't wanted. I don't recall anyone being asked at the time.
Just read the AMPLT reports around about 1985 onwards. Every station that they went to had the same cry - "we only want to pay for the food that we eat". Well, you got it. The VSOs listened to you. They didn't listen to us staff officers in MOD who very clearly, and repeatedly, said THIS WOULD BE A VERY BAD THING FOR THE FORCES.
Oh no, siree! Give the oiks a few more shekels in the pocket so that they could go down to the local kebab house rather than have a meal in the mess - or spend it on the new motorbike instead and go a bit hungry for a while.
Well, this is the law of unintended consequences - live with it. That's what you wanted. Too difficult to turn back now. But you were were warned.
Last edited by sisemen; 20th Jun 2013 at 15:50. Reason: bleedin' auto spell checkers!
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Sorry.....I'm on a roll.
It's a bit like when the Personal Private Pensions came in and the piranhas of the insurance industry moved in on the troops (officers included) and persuaded them that opting out of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme would be the way to go 'cos they would get squillions.
We, at MOD, issued a warning note which went out to every military establishment (and it was included regularly in SROs) ....DO NOT DO THIS, YOU WILL BE SORRY.
Despite the warning there were still a good percentage that insisted that they really did want to go down this route.
Plan B. Issue each and every person that wanted to do this with a paper that stated, in very bald terms, what the consequences would be if they chose to carry on. The paper then required a signature to say that the applicant fully understood the consequences, and another signature to say that they still wanted to go ahead. Then, and only then, once they had fully certified their stupidity would we allow them to opt out.
Occasionally one hears from them, whinging about how they were dudded and how the hell are they now going to manage etc etc etc.
Sympathy??? It's somewhere between **** and syphillis in the dictionary.
It's a bit like when the Personal Private Pensions came in and the piranhas of the insurance industry moved in on the troops (officers included) and persuaded them that opting out of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme would be the way to go 'cos they would get squillions.
We, at MOD, issued a warning note which went out to every military establishment (and it was included regularly in SROs) ....DO NOT DO THIS, YOU WILL BE SORRY.
Despite the warning there were still a good percentage that insisted that they really did want to go down this route.
Plan B. Issue each and every person that wanted to do this with a paper that stated, in very bald terms, what the consequences would be if they chose to carry on. The paper then required a signature to say that the applicant fully understood the consequences, and another signature to say that they still wanted to go ahead. Then, and only then, once they had fully certified their stupidity would we allow them to opt out.
Occasionally one hears from them, whinging about how they were dudded and how the hell are they now going to manage etc etc etc.
Sympathy??? It's somewhere between **** and syphillis in the dictionary.