Afghanistan. It's over at last!
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Afghanistan. It's over at last!
Who won?
.
Who won?
.
BAe, Supercat, Babcock etc
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Quote:
It's over at last!
I'm sure they said much the same thing back in 1842. We never seem to learn.
It's over at last!
I'm sure they said much the same thing back in 1842. We never seem to learn.
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I notice that Tony Abbott made a point of not declaring victory or defeat
when he said the last Aussie troops had left Uruzgan today and were
"in the air".
when he said the last Aussie troops had left Uruzgan today and were
"in the air".
QUOTE: Unfortunately I do not share your confidence that we will have seen our last UK casualty. I think we will continue to take hits until all the troops (of all Services) are home.
Not even then: think of Drummer Rigby, and the enduring hatred we have brought on ourselves. This will never end.
Not even then: think of Drummer Rigby, and the enduring hatred we have brought on ourselves. This will never end.
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PM having lunch there today.
All for the press and TV cameras, the PM does some glad handing and has lunch with the troops, probably gets a briefing about current Afghan situ.
David Cameron declares 'mission accomplished' in Afghanistan - Telegraph
Think the blurb says it is "Mission Accomplished" and a "job well done". I'm not in any position to comment about that.(but I have my doubts).
I always think about the very young men and women out in the front line, at the tip of the spear. Always in my thoughts, especially at this time of the year.
David Cameron declares 'mission accomplished' in Afghanistan - Telegraph
Think the blurb says it is "Mission Accomplished" and a "job well done". I'm not in any position to comment about that.(but I have my doubts).
I always think about the very young men and women out in the front line, at the tip of the spear. Always in my thoughts, especially at this time of the year.
Unfortunately I do not share your confidence that we will have seen our last UK casualty. I think we will continue to take hits until all the troops (of all Services) are home.
Not even then: think of Drummer Rigby, and the enduring hatred we have brought on ourselves. This will never end.
Not even then: think of Drummer Rigby, and the enduring hatred we have brought on ourselves. This will never end.
The mental problems will sadly be still seen for years after both in families, institutions and on the streets as those who cannot cope try and find other means to forget.
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And you believe Cameroon? Heck he is the guy who told the Ark Royal crew they were doing a great job.
One would like to think that it is over, but somehow one thinks we will be there for years in one way or another.
One would like to think that it is over, but somehow one thinks we will be there for years in one way or another.
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Time to bring the kit and more importantly, the boys and girls home.
I hope all of those who put their careers ahead of their subordinates now reflect and ask if it was worth it. The army got its war to justify its land army and it's not exactly worked out well has it?
As to Afghanistan, I hope the power vaccum that will potentially be left doesn't cause an immediate reversion to type, but alas I fear there is little chance otherwise.
Not to forget all those KBE's too...
I hope all of those who put their careers ahead of their subordinates now reflect and ask if it was worth it. The army got its war to justify its land army and it's not exactly worked out well has it?
As to Afghanistan, I hope the power vaccum that will potentially be left doesn't cause an immediate reversion to type, but alas I fear there is little chance otherwise.
BAe, Supercat, Babcock etc
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Meanwhile, in the Tribal Areas of Pakistan and elsewhere in that poor broken country, Taliban Travel Agents are rubbing their hands with glee at the upcoming business resulting from the impending migration of "peaceful people" to the newly "peaceful" Afghanistan.
I give it 12 months before it implodes.
I give it 12 months before it implodes.
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"I hope all of those who put their careers ahead of their subordinates now reflect and ask if it was worth it. The army got its war to justify its land army and it's not exactly worked out well has it? "
I understand that war incurs casualties and you have to "push on" BUT the one period that sticks in my mind was the time the Paras occupied a building in Sangin (I think) and effectively had the shyte shot out of them bit by bit for what in the end appeared to be no reason as it was eventually left.
From what I read they couldn't patrol, the Taliban just took pot shots at them
from distance and then assaulted every so often, it was damn hard to extract
casualties and effect re supply and all in all a great loss for little gain.
I understand that war incurs casualties and you have to "push on" BUT the one period that sticks in my mind was the time the Paras occupied a building in Sangin (I think) and effectively had the shyte shot out of them bit by bit for what in the end appeared to be no reason as it was eventually left.
From what I read they couldn't patrol, the Taliban just took pot shots at them
from distance and then assaulted every so often, it was damn hard to extract
casualties and effect re supply and all in all a great loss for little gain.
Last edited by 500N; 16th Dec 2013 at 18:22.
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""You can't brass everyone up, you can't beat the will of the people".
Bollocks. Tell that to the Japanese after the yanks firebombed Tokyo, the Iraqis after the yanks did fallujah....
I think Fallujah was a bit different.
A fair number of the population has gone before the main assault.
The fighters had 3 levels, the untrained expendable, the better
trained and then the leadership.
And those civvies that were left often helped the Yanks by pointing
out where the fighters were holed up.
But I agree, you can beat the will of the people, it depends how effective
you are, it's not just about bullets and killing them IMHO.
Bollocks. Tell that to the Japanese after the yanks firebombed Tokyo, the Iraqis after the yanks did fallujah....
I think Fallujah was a bit different.
A fair number of the population has gone before the main assault.
The fighters had 3 levels, the untrained expendable, the better
trained and then the leadership.
And those civvies that were left often helped the Yanks by pointing
out where the fighters were holed up.
But I agree, you can beat the will of the people, it depends how effective
you are, it's not just about bullets and killing them IMHO.
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Why>
What would you want to do it for Toadstool? Get out ahead mate. No one will thank you.
Give Cameron his due he is trying to sound the right noises. I mean what do you really say to the lads parents whose sons were lost? It was all for nowt?
Hope the whole of our chattering classes reflect on this minor conflict, in many ways. But doubt they will.
We have exposed ourselves as a massively divided country in this war. And you know what I mean.
A cynical higher end, an indifferent middle bit, a "give a **** still" lower bit.
* agree on who said about the damaged mental people out there - seen a few un hinged by it (violently so) but then again was ever thus.
Give Cameron his due he is trying to sound the right noises. I mean what do you really say to the lads parents whose sons were lost? It was all for nowt?
Hope the whole of our chattering classes reflect on this minor conflict, in many ways. But doubt they will.
We have exposed ourselves as a massively divided country in this war. And you know what I mean.
A cynical higher end, an indifferent middle bit, a "give a **** still" lower bit.
* agree on who said about the damaged mental people out there - seen a few un hinged by it (violently so) but then again was ever thus.
As to Afghanistan, I hope the power vaccum that will potentially be left doesn't cause an immediate reversion to type, but alas I fear there is little chance otherwise.
Slim hope, given what is there to work with in human terms.
My only concern with all these "political" statements, are, that they are sound bites for a media eager to publish anything the latest "head snake oil salesman" says. They have picked up on his " victory" statement amongst his eagerness for glad handing selfies with the lads. I have every respect for all our servicemen who have served, or are serving in Afghanistan, I have absolutely none for the ex PR man out to use them as a vote grab, as he brings them home to fight for zero hours contracts with the Roma, having made most if them redundant. Perhaps at 60 I'm just becoming bitter and twisted, but did they treat our generation of servicemen like this ?
Smudge
Smudge
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A Good Read
I'm currently reading "The Tigers and the Taliban" by Lars Johannesen. An interesting insight into ground ops for those of us fortunate enough to have only seen the recent conflicts from the air. (With all due deference to our rotary friends to whom many of our guys on the ground owe their lives)