RAF EFT
Thread Starter
RAF EFT
I know it's the Daily Mail, but I surprised that this hasn't been picked up on yet.
Got to love some of the comments from the "public" though 
RAF unable to teach new pilots for five months after propellers fall off two training aircraft in mid-flight grounding entire fleet
The German-built Grob 115E Tutor aircraft have not flown since January 9th
It follows two incidents at RAF Cranwell in January and in August last year
On both occasions propeller came off in flight forcing an emergency landing
Row has broken out between manufacturer and maintenance contractor
The German-built Grob 115E Tutor aircraft have not flown since January 9th
It follows two incidents at RAF Cranwell in January and in August last year
On both occasions propeller came off in flight forcing an emergency landing
Row has broken out between manufacturer and maintenance contractor
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It's also in the Times:
Pilot training halted after RAF planes lose propellers in flight | The Times
Duncs
Pilot training halted after RAF planes lose propellers in flight | The Times
Duncs
Red On, Green On
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Way back on 1979 the jointly staffed but RAF housed and equipped RN EFT at Leeming was struggling with the combination of weather, student numbers and airframe availability/serviceability.
FONAC's staff suggested setting up an EFT flight at Yeovilton using some Chipmunks from Roborough.
Suddenly the RAF found the required assets and we got through on time (helped by a massive improvement in the weather, mostly).
How many Chipmunks could now be pressed into service?
FONAC's staff suggested setting up an EFT flight at Yeovilton using some Chipmunks from Roborough.
Suddenly the RAF found the required assets and we got through on time (helped by a massive improvement in the weather, mostly).
How many Chipmunks could now be pressed into service?
A defence source told the Times: 'There is now a bottleneck. No military pilot has started training for six months and there is no solution in sight.'
According to the source a row has now broken out between the defence contractor Babcock and the German manufacturers about who was responsible for the failures.
The source added: 'The aircraft are provided by Babcock under a PFI. The contract is to provide flying hours per year.
'They are wriggling out of it saying it is a design fault, which is surprising considering the the supply of flying hours is the essence of the contract.'
According to the source a row has now broken out between the defence contractor Babcock and the German manufacturers about who was responsible for the failures.
The source added: 'The aircraft are provided by Babcock under a PFI. The contract is to provide flying hours per year.
'They are wriggling out of it saying it is a design fault, which is surprising considering the the supply of flying hours is the essence of the contract.'
Strange how we never had these problems when we did things properly, with Tiger Moths, Chipmunks, Bulldogs etc. - and even ab initio Jet Provost training. But no - the bean counters decided to contractorise things and to use this wretched Plastic Pig which clearly isn't up to the job.
'The MOD can confirm that the Babcock Grob Tutor aircraft are currently undergoing a pause in flying operations whilst an on-going mechanical issue is investigated.
'The impact to the training pipeline is being mitigated by the adoption of a number of measures including the use of other platforms.'
'The impact to the training pipeline is being mitigated by the adoption of a number of measures including the use of other platforms.'
A 'pause in flying operations'? A 'pause' of nearly 5 months....
It's lucky that there's no real urgency to train military pilots for what passes for the UK Armed Forces these days...
UAS life must be a barrel of fun. What a wonderful start to a youngster's flying career - 'The props are falling off the Plastic Pigs, but we've no-one left with any idea about how to fix them back on again.... But hey, you can go hill walking instead!'....
Last edited by BEagle; 31st May 2013 at 14:52.
I may be simplifying things far too much here but surely if Babcock are contracted to provide x flying hours per year, the risk of how they achieve that lies with them?
In other words, they should either spend their own money on alternative aircraft and argue with the Germans in their own time or pay the costs for a decent civilian flying school to train our upcoming pilot bretheren till they are ready to go again?
Or let me guess - the PFI contract says that any failure to meet agreed targets will lie entirely in the hands of the MOD.
In other words, they should either spend their own money on alternative aircraft and argue with the Germans in their own time or pay the costs for a decent civilian flying school to train our upcoming pilot bretheren till they are ready to go again?
Or let me guess - the PFI contract says that any failure to meet agreed targets will lie entirely in the hands of the MOD.
Well, we have brought Hunters back (in a way), so why not other aircraft. Would the RAF allow flying training in "permit" aircraft? Probably not. Gliding (shades of the nascent German Luftwaffe in the 30s) - there's an idea. Send them all to Syerston.
or pay the costs for a decent civilian flying school
I did a flying scholarship at one of the best civvy flight schools, and they taught me how to fly safely and well.
Then I joined a UAS and they started from scratch..., and taught me how to master the aircraft, which is completely different. My UAS instructors had flown Spitfire, Meteor, Hunter, Lightnings (2 of them), Canberra, Hercules, Nimrod, Shackleton, Liberator; and they taught me stuff both inside and outside the cockpit that proved profoundly useful later.
Gliders with RAF Instructors would be a much better bet.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 31st May 2013 at 15:24.
Thread Starter
Or let me guess - the PFI contract says that any failure to meet agreed targets will lie entirely in the hands of the MOD.
Bean counters; can't live with them and can't shoot them!
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There were problems in the past with this and other platforms. Some just said "oh, they all do that !" .............until Haddon Cave:
Royal Air Force Nimrod XV230 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hope it gets fixed soon.
Royal Air Force Nimrod XV230 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hope it gets fixed soon.
Fox3
That might have been the case when you joined up, but these days a lot of the UAS/EFT graduates have to put in serious work (for both ground exams and flying tests) to achieve a PPL. It's not their fault, it's just that they don't get the same exposure anymore 
I guess this is one of the reasons why the CAA/EASA could not agree with 22Gp regarding exemptions for licensing in CAP804 - we just don't train them like we used to.
In humble opinion, of course...
LJ
Then I joined a UAS and they started from scratch..., and taught me how to master the aircraft, which is completely different. My UAS instructors had flown Spitfire, Meteor, Hunter, Lightnings (2 of them), Canberra, Hercules, Nimrod, Shackleton, Liberator; and they taught me stuff both inside and outside the cockpit that proved profoundly useful later.
I guess this is one of the reasons why the CAA/EASA could not agree with 22Gp regarding exemptions for licensing in CAP804 - we just don't train them like we used to.
In humble opinion, of course...
LJ
So, how many hours would a UAS student get now in 3 years? I got 144, including solo formation flying. The PPL(A) was a giveaway if you had attained PFB.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 1st Jun 2013 at 11:47.
RAF EFT
Depends if the system will wear the guys not doing spinning and aeros...it works fine if you want to fly for the airlines, but what about our potential fast-jet types? Send them to the Blades? Load that onto the Tucano cse?