HMS Illustrious
The company you're thinking of is Able UK on Teesside. Who recycled a bunch of ex-US auxiliaries and the French carrier Clemenceau.
Able UK Ltd - Decommissioning, Ship Recycling, Shiprecycling & Ship Breaking
Ark is programmed to leave on Monday, near midday, Tuesday as reserve.
Able UK Ltd - Decommissioning, Ship Recycling, Shiprecycling & Ship Breaking
Ark is programmed to leave on Monday, near midday, Tuesday as reserve.
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Great pictures of a great ship. It reminds me of when I first joined the mob and was doing my seamanship training in small sailing boats from Jupiter Point. At night we anchored in the lee of the old Ark Royal. I also remember seeing the old Bulwark tied up in Portsmouth alongside one of the new, (at that time), carriers,(through-deck-cruiser), and thinking about the difference in size. Thinking of big, when I saw the type 22's for the first time I thought it was massive for a frigate.
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Great pics, out of interest why is the flag at half mast on the picture taken on the 13th?
If it were up to me, which unfortunately it isn't. I would keep The Illustrious and Ark Royal until the new carriers become operational.
Your comment is a really good example of historical defence thinking - no attention to keeping within a budget, and an assumption that there is a bucket of cash around provided by the taxpayer !
I doubt your household is run like that.
Back to the main point, I was in Portsmouth at the Spinnaker tower last wek and I though I saw Invincible there, but was clearly mistaken.
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I would cut the Foreign Aid Budget. The EU budget, and any beancounter I can get my hands on. Don't get me onto the banks !
Streetwise and military personnel rarely appear in the same sentence.
If you want to be 'management man' and follow their BS.
Up to you.
Don't give me any of this we cannot afford it crap either. When money is needed, it is mysteriously suddenly available.
If we can afford the overpriced F-35B. We can afford anything.
Don't believe the BS !
Streetwise and military personnel rarely appear in the same sentence.
If you want to be 'management man' and follow their BS.
Up to you.
Don't give me any of this we cannot afford it crap either. When money is needed, it is mysteriously suddenly available.
If we can afford the overpriced F-35B. We can afford anything.
Don't believe the BS !
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Sacrificed for the Foreign Aid Budget. The beancounters and Globalists are having their day. The Ark was better than the converted container ships the Royal Navy has now.
It has been a Great Mistake. Gay marriage is more important to this government.
BBC News - Ark Royal leaves Portsmouth for scrap yard
It has been a Great Mistake. Gay marriage is more important to this government.
BBC News - Ark Royal leaves Portsmouth for scrap yard
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Agree with Stuffy totally, I would have kept it going.
Fleet Air Arm and RN aviation and everything else involved with maritime air ops is going to be difficult to kick start again. Not impossible, but just much more difficult.
Graham O,I would have cut something else, somewhere with the public finances of this country to keep relatively important military systems running.
CVS did a lot of operations, did a lot of things for this country and other countries too. They were worth their money.
Its not a good time, ever to cut back on military spending in this country, ever. History always seems to teach us this lesson, at least in some things I've read, or been told by people who were there..
I think we should always keep our armed forces relatively strong, well equipped and well trained.
Most ordinary reasonable people think that y'know, despite their political differences.
Fleet Air Arm and RN aviation and everything else involved with maritime air ops is going to be difficult to kick start again. Not impossible, but just much more difficult.
Graham O,I would have cut something else, somewhere with the public finances of this country to keep relatively important military systems running.
CVS did a lot of operations, did a lot of things for this country and other countries too. They were worth their money.
Its not a good time, ever to cut back on military spending in this country, ever. History always seems to teach us this lesson, at least in some things I've read, or been told by people who were there..
I think we should always keep our armed forces relatively strong, well equipped and well trained.
Most ordinary reasonable people think that y'know, despite their political differences.
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"Its not a good time, ever to cut back on military spending in this country, ever. History always seems to teach us this lesson,"
Hangar
It's not like the history is all that long ago for the UK either
with most from the Falklands era still alive.
Hangar
It's not like the history is all that long ago for the UK either
with most from the Falklands era still alive.
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Sometime from now, and that far off date when the Queen Elizabeth and the Prince of Wales, allegedly become operational. Aircraft issues notwithstanding.
There will be a major panic with the words, "Why did we scrap The Ark and Illustrious?"
I would add Harriers to the comment. OK the FRS 2 Harrier was not supersonic and didn't have much of a range,but; It pissed all over the F15 and Rafale in exercises.
1967: Order from Pakistan Air Force high command. Do not engage the Indian Air Force Gnat. Which became the Ajeet later.
Folland Gnat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ajeet.
HAL Ajeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There will be a major panic with the words, "Why did we scrap The Ark and Illustrious?"
I would add Harriers to the comment. OK the FRS 2 Harrier was not supersonic and didn't have much of a range,but; It pissed all over the F15 and Rafale in exercises.
1967: Order from Pakistan Air Force high command. Do not engage the Indian Air Force Gnat. Which became the Ajeet later.
Folland Gnat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ajeet.
HAL Ajeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by Stuffy; 21st May 2013 at 00:15.
OK the FRS 2 Harrier was not supersonic and didn't have much of a range,but; It pissed all over the F15 and Rafale in exercises.
So you're saying the Sea Harrier was a better aircraft than the F15 and Rafale? Or are you saying you saw one of the latter aircraft playing Red Air on an Ex once and get shot BVR by a Sea Jet using trg AMRAAM parameters? Let's try and stay credible!
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LAL,
Perhaps I can help here. I was involved with bringing the FA2 into service, as well as serving with an FRS1 squadron. (but not a pilot - engineer)
Sea Harrier was not, in any way, 'a better aircraft' than either F15 or Rafale. Not very much sustained G capability, slow and not a lot of fuel. However...
1. Flown aggressively by good and highly trained pilots, the FRS1 could give a very good account of itself, especially when armed with 9Ls. Small, hard to spot, no smoke, and a very good weapons system integration. My source was an F-16 pilot who said that the SHAR's HUD was one of the best he ever saw, and the aircraft one of the toughest adversaries. I also know that FRS1s gave most adversaries at Deci a good run for their money, including F-15s. Once they actually got into combat, the fact that they didn't use reheat often allowed them to outlast an F-15. But, no BVR capability, so...
2. The FA2 had an exceptionally good BVR capability, due to a world class radar that arrived on time (both firsts for a UK fighter programme), and an even better radar/missile integration. My source for the first statement - UK pilots who flew FA2s and F/A-18C/D, who said that Blue Vixen was about the best radar of its type when it entered service. My source for the second statement - the guys from Hughes who came over to help us get the AMRAAM into service and said that we had the most capable radar/AMRAAM combo in the world at that time (92 to around 98). FA2s were a completely 'credible' jet right up to the day they were retired, and were proving it. It was about to get a really excellent JTIDS/INS/radar integration update that would have given it a new lease of life. But, it was canned, but.....
3. Happily, most of the experience and technology from the FA2's BV/AMRAAM combo went over to help the Typhoon programme.
I don't think they 'pissed all over' F-15s and Rafales all the time. (Sorry, Stuffy). But they were world class when they entered service and a thoroughly 'credible' combat aircraft right up to the day they were retired.
Best Regards as ever to those getting ready to do Naval Fixed Wing Aviation all over again,
Engines
Perhaps I can help here. I was involved with bringing the FA2 into service, as well as serving with an FRS1 squadron. (but not a pilot - engineer)
Sea Harrier was not, in any way, 'a better aircraft' than either F15 or Rafale. Not very much sustained G capability, slow and not a lot of fuel. However...
1. Flown aggressively by good and highly trained pilots, the FRS1 could give a very good account of itself, especially when armed with 9Ls. Small, hard to spot, no smoke, and a very good weapons system integration. My source was an F-16 pilot who said that the SHAR's HUD was one of the best he ever saw, and the aircraft one of the toughest adversaries. I also know that FRS1s gave most adversaries at Deci a good run for their money, including F-15s. Once they actually got into combat, the fact that they didn't use reheat often allowed them to outlast an F-15. But, no BVR capability, so...
2. The FA2 had an exceptionally good BVR capability, due to a world class radar that arrived on time (both firsts for a UK fighter programme), and an even better radar/missile integration. My source for the first statement - UK pilots who flew FA2s and F/A-18C/D, who said that Blue Vixen was about the best radar of its type when it entered service. My source for the second statement - the guys from Hughes who came over to help us get the AMRAAM into service and said that we had the most capable radar/AMRAAM combo in the world at that time (92 to around 98). FA2s were a completely 'credible' jet right up to the day they were retired, and were proving it. It was about to get a really excellent JTIDS/INS/radar integration update that would have given it a new lease of life. But, it was canned, but.....
3. Happily, most of the experience and technology from the FA2's BV/AMRAAM combo went over to help the Typhoon programme.
I don't think they 'pissed all over' F-15s and Rafales all the time. (Sorry, Stuffy). But they were world class when they entered service and a thoroughly 'credible' combat aircraft right up to the day they were retired.
Best Regards as ever to those getting ready to do Naval Fixed Wing Aviation all over again,
Engines
Great pics, out of interest why is the flag at half mast on the picture taken on the 13th?
Nutloose - I suspect that the flag on the jackstaff appears to be at half-mast simply because of the way it is swirling in the fairly strong wind, and a quick look at the ensign staff seems to confirm this inasmuch as the ensign is flying close-up.
Jack
Nutloose - I suspect that the flag on the jackstaff appears to be at half-mast simply because of the way it is swirling in the fairly strong wind, and a quick look at the ensign staff seems to confirm this inasmuch as the ensign is flying close-up.
Jack
Ladies and gents,
I am quite familiar (or rather was
familiar) with the FA2's capabilities, I was just questioning the rather bold (and in my opinion, misleading) statement about its performance vs other aircraft.
Orca, how about APG-81, Meteor/AMRAAM and a M1.4 launch in block 4 with a >6g abort option? Not long to wait now!
I am quite familiar (or rather was
familiar) with the FA2's capabilities, I was just questioning the rather bold (and in my opinion, misleading) statement about its performance vs other aircraft. Orca, how about APG-81, Meteor/AMRAAM and a M1.4 launch in block 4 with a >6g abort option? Not long to wait now!
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Whilst it certainly isn't the whole story I would much rather have a Blue Vixen than a APG-65 any day of the week and I would rather have an AMRAAM than a Mica.
As for pissing all over other aeroplanes - that sounds both un-gentlemanly and counter-productive. One can only assume it was a trick perfected on the F3 force
.
I pissed all over myself in an aeroplane once, but that was a 'urine bag/ autopilot malfunction issue' that probably won't happen again.
As for pissing all over other aeroplanes - that sounds both un-gentlemanly and counter-productive. One can only assume it was a trick perfected on the F3 force
.I pissed all over myself in an aeroplane once, but that was a 'urine bag/ autopilot malfunction issue' that probably won't happen again.
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I pissed all over myself in an aeroplane once, but that was a 'urine bag/ autopilot malfunction issue' that probably won't happen again.
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I remember watching a 2 Deck dash on her ( a rapid circumnavigation of 2 deck when an individual wears nothing but anti flash and a smile) with the sprinter being chased by the Master At Arms who had to stop because he was laughing so much.
Happy days.
Happy days.