AFPS 75 and NEM
Gentleman Aviator
Although you can serve to 65 in FTRS posts...
He who we have been discussing elsewhere (JM) is - I think - 65 already and has just started his FTRS contract........
It seems to me that the Fire Brigades Union is doing a far better job of protecting the interests of its members than what is being dealt to the UK Armed Forces along with the usual sound bites coming from the MOD saying that it is a great new pension.
It seems wholly wrong to move the pension age to 60 to those still serving and then not having a way of being able to earn it as the terms of service boot you out at 55. Is NEM supposed to address this?
It seems wholly wrong to move the pension age to 60 to those still serving and then not having a way of being able to earn it as the terms of service boot you out at 55. Is NEM supposed to address this?
When it comes to the new pension scheme (AFPS15) people should still qualify for the Early Departure Payment scheme having made the 20/40 point (20 years of service or age 40 whichever is later). It's just that they may not make the final age 60 point. There are plenty of Chief Techs that currently leave at age 47 (if I remember, this is their normal maximum) and get their pensions immediately on retirement, as do Corporals and Sergeants that leave at their 22 year point.
I'm guessing that the pension will be smaller at EDP, but AFPS15 was supposed to save money as we're all living longer. I guess the hardest hit will be flight lieutenants, warrant officers and flight sergeants who will have age 55 retirement dates (from what I've heard about NEM in the early briefings) will be the worst hit - they will get some pension on retirement and then the rest at 65/66/67.
I doubt, even if we could, that the military would enjoy much sympathy from the generl public if we went on strike - just like the firefighters.
The B Word
Deliverance
Here is an option. AFPS15 is the same for Regular and Reserve personnel. So at age 55 (or earlier) get a FTRS job and serve to age 60. That way you get the full whack of AFPS pension.
I know it's not ideal, but there is always a way forward with things to get to where you want to be.
LJ
Here is an option. AFPS15 is the same for Regular and Reserve personnel. So at age 55 (or earlier) get a FTRS job and serve to age 60. That way you get the full whack of AFPS pension.
I know it's not ideal, but there is always a way forward with things to get to where you want to be.
LJ
Gentleman Aviator
Leon
JM is - IIRC - just turned 65, so was 64 when he got his 4 year 2FTS FTRS job at the back end of last year. Maybe 65 is the absolute max to start??
As for RAFR MSF/CC, they are technically Civil Servants, so depending on when they joined (the CS) they may have no upper age limit at all! I know of one such who I think is 72 this year ..... but on a good day would pass for much younger.
JM is - IIRC - just turned 65, so was 64 when he got his 4 year 2FTS FTRS job at the back end of last year. Maybe 65 is the absolute max to start??
As for RAFR MSF/CC, they are technically Civil Servants, so depending on when they joined (the CS) they may have no upper age limit at all! I know of one such who I think is 72 this year ..... but on a good day would pass for much younger.
The B Word:
When it comes to the new pension scheme (AFPS15) people should still qualify for the Early Departure Payment scheme having made the 20/40 point (20 years of service or age 40 whichever is later).
Careful, if has to be 20 years of service AND at least 40 years of age or you only get £10000 resettlement grant then nothing until state pension age! This little rule is going to screw over anyone serving only 22 years who joined under 18. I've screamed and shouted about this to anyone who'll listen but it seems the Armed Forces aren't bound by any age discrimination policy.
I've created an imaginary Cpl joining at 17 and serving 22 years on the new pension calculator and it confirms my above, I assume it'll be the same for Flt Lt's who are young when joining and don't serve past 20 years?
When it comes to the new pension scheme (AFPS15) people should still qualify for the Early Departure Payment scheme having made the 20/40 point (20 years of service or age 40 whichever is later).
Careful, if has to be 20 years of service AND at least 40 years of age or you only get £10000 resettlement grant then nothing until state pension age! This little rule is going to screw over anyone serving only 22 years who joined under 18. I've screamed and shouted about this to anyone who'll listen but it seems the Armed Forces aren't bound by any age discrimination policy.
I've created an imaginary Cpl joining at 17 and serving 22 years on the new pension calculator and it confirms my above, I assume it'll be the same for Flt Lt's who are young when joining and don't serve past 20 years?
4everAD,
Flt Lts caught in that trap were all offered an opportunity to extend their commission to age 40 to make sure they'd get AFPS15 EDPs. As AFPS15 service counts from age 18 (unlike AFPS75 which counts from 21 for officers), most serving to 38 would be pretty close to it anyway.
I know a few people who've extended between 2 and 5 years to get it.
Flt Lts caught in that trap were all offered an opportunity to extend their commission to age 40 to make sure they'd get AFPS15 EDPs. As AFPS15 service counts from age 18 (unlike AFPS75 which counts from 21 for officers), most serving to 38 would be pretty close to it anyway.
I know a few people who've extended between 2 and 5 years to get it.
Fair enough so it's just JRs who joined aged <18 getting screwed then! Theres been no extensions given to them. I can't see how you can have 2 people join up on the the same day serve identical careers to 22 year point but because one is >18 on joining they get approx £250,000 more than the <18. Lawyers are going to rape the MOD over this one in years to come just like the gay/pregnant cases. Why are the powers that be blind/ignorant/uncaring to this?
Last edited by 4everAD; 4th May 2014 at 19:35.
Our clerks attached it as a hyperlink on Orders earlier today, not sure where they got it from. If it isn't yet on general release (now wondering who our clerks know?!) I can't see it being long before formally released as I think it's already overdue.
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Gents - the IBN is in draft. The HR chain have received an advance copy to help them prepare for subsequent briefings next week. What they have received is the 90% version - just be careful if the clerks have issued it out.
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In response to my #79.
I have said for some time that AFPS 15 was/is unsustainable and that the cost cap would be breached far quicker than the promised 25 years, maybe as soon as before the end of the life of the next Parliament. This is the economic reality that no manner or amount of waffling, presentations or campaigning can eclipse. So, it was interesting and depressing to read, on pages 65-68 and hidden within the bowels of the Autumn Statement.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Accessible.pdf
The table a couple of pages before that shows just how dramatically public sector pensions are going to be chipping in; annually, to the tune of up to £400 millions or so per annum for the next 5 years. That's new money; money, it is claimed, needed to finish the Hutton reforms that lead to the introduction of AFPS 15. If even I saw it coming, it had to be coming. And if the MoD knew it was coming, it shows scant 'corporate' regard for future personal planning.
If the cost cap is going to breached (and the MoD was already operating within tight confines on this due in part, to the very generous accrual rate of AFPS15) then the promised 25 year window of no pension change will be another target that fell when hit.
That will mean either further cuts in service or more changes to the pension. And because SP don't actively chip in, how can that happen? Cuts to AFPS wouldn't have been popular, certainly while Herrick was ongoing, so it might be most likely to assume the accrual rate for AFPS 15 (of 1/47) gets sharply revised, perhaps to something in the region of 1/65 or 1/70, or maybe even adding another year or two the scheme normal retirement age.
2.13 Public service pensions revaluations – New employer contribution rates will be introduced for the Armed Forces Pension Scheme, the Firefighters’ Pension Scheme, the Judicial Pension Scheme and devolved public service pension schemes in Scotland and Northern Ireland from April 2015.
The table a couple of pages before that shows just how dramatically public sector pensions are going to be chipping in; annually, to the tune of up to £400 millions or so per annum for the next 5 years. That's new money; money, it is claimed, needed to finish the Hutton reforms that lead to the introduction of AFPS 15. If even I saw it coming, it had to be coming. And if the MoD knew it was coming, it shows scant 'corporate' regard for future personal planning.
If the cost cap is going to breached (and the MoD was already operating within tight confines on this due in part, to the very generous accrual rate of AFPS15) then the promised 25 year window of no pension change will be another target that fell when hit.
That will mean either further cuts in service or more changes to the pension. And because SP don't actively chip in, how can that happen? Cuts to AFPS wouldn't have been popular, certainly while Herrick was ongoing, so it might be most likely to assume the accrual rate for AFPS 15 (of 1/47) gets sharply revised, perhaps to something in the region of 1/65 or 1/70, or maybe even adding another year or two the scheme normal retirement age.
Last edited by Al R; 3rd Dec 2014 at 19:48. Reason: Edit: Scant regard, not 'disregard'!
Crikey Al, happy christmas mate! Any idea when it will become unaffordable in your expert and valued opinion? I did think that 1/47th was a bit generous and that with the reverse commutation I worked out that it was closer to 1/56th with a similar lump sum to AFPS05. So there is certainly wriggle room to go towards 1/55th to 1/60th to get a similar deal - but another year or 2 on normal retirement date then I really will be Cpl Jones in most above made in May!!!
LJ
LJ
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If anything might happen, the sooner the better.. a year or so after getting another 5 year mandate, that'd be a management call I'd imagine, but why wait? It'd be interesting to see what level of legislative change would be required to simply fine tune the accrual rate instead of starting it all again, as compelled by Hutton.
And Happy Christmas back. ;-)
And Happy Christmas back. ;-)
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If the cost is in variance to the cost cap by +/- 2%, the Secretary of State can 'consult' and then make changes.
2016 at the earliest?
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...y_to_hmt_4.pdf
In response to a rather ominous..
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._actuary_4.pdf
2016 at the earliest?
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...y_to_hmt_4.pdf
In response to a rather ominous..
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._actuary_4.pdf
Last edited by Al R; 3rd Dec 2014 at 20:52.
