Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F-35 Up Close @ Nellis

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F-35 Up Close @ Nellis

Old 18th Mar 2013, 10:00
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in the magical land of beer and chocolates
Age: 49
Posts: 505
I don't understand the emphasis put on the DAS part by the F35 enthusiasts , it is basically a subsystem, a very promising one but still something that could be implemented on most other aircraft according to Northrop who , by their own account, will make this available for other platforms.

It is the first of its kind, an evolution , not a revolution, the first to have 360° coverage but it would be foolish to say that it will be the only one in the following years to come , eg RAFALE is almost @ the same level a couple more sensors around the airframe will make it virtually equal to the EO DAS with the added benefit of also having a good TV channel on its OSF.

Front End of the Kill-Chain | Defense Media Network
Edwards confirms that Northrop Grumman intends to offer DAS for platforms other than the JSF.

“There’s nothing about the DAS system that would prevent it from being applicable to other platforms if that was desired. Integration would be the only real developmental work required.”

The biggest challenge in the development of DAS for the JSF was adapting the system for the three variants.
I would be more interested in the Gimball mounted AESA on the Typhoons starting in 2017 and the NG Gripen, a wider FOV for the AESA is certainly a nice tool to have.
Also the provisions for side lobes on the F22 and RAFALE are very interesting future developments.

IR sensors on the F35 are maybe its most redeeming feature but that says more about the lack of redeeming features/performance from the rest of the basic F35 fighter.

Besides as Radar's go, the F18SH and the F22 seem to have an AESA at least equal to the F35, put some EO DAS on these 2 (or 3 if you include the F15) and the benefits of the F35 are pretty much negated.

Also the future will undoubtedly prove to be much more difficult with new IRCM which will undoubtedly also finds its way on future fighters and missile systems.
Being able to physically look over your shoulder will be something you'll love to be able to do if the EO DAS wizardry let's you down when you really need it or is being deceived by your adversaries wizardry.

If EO DAS and the AESA would really be enough to ensure a positive outcome all of the time , why bother with trying to build a high performance jet in the first place?
A nice and comfortable learjet sized stealth plane would be equally fine with the added benefit of silent engines, a nice toilet, IFE and a microwave and coffee-machine.
kbrockman is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 13:34
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sussex
Posts: 76
kbrockman, but doesn't that then explode the myth? Put the gubbins on a so-called 'Gen 4' and you've got most of the performance at a fraction of the cost.
ColdCollation is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 13:52
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 59
Posts: 200
A simple point was made recently in an Australian tactical simulation - the lack of egress speed could prove a disaster once the initial exchanges are over against cheaper but numerically superior opponents.
Mimpe is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 13:56
  #64 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 62
Posts: 6,996
All this High Tech Bonedome stuff is very interesting ... but a little scary to say the least ... OK it may be a bit crude to suggest future FJ Pilots have a USB Port grafted to the back of their heads ... but there again ...

I remember reading this article at the time (2004) and thinking how scary

Florida scientists have grown a brain in a petri dish and taught it to fly a fighter plane.

Scientists at the university of Florida taught the 'brain', which was grown from 25,000 neural cells extracted from a rat embryo, to pilot an F-22 jet simulator. It was taught to control the flight path, even in mock hurricane-strength winds.
The Register Rat Brain Pilot

So the tech has for sure progressed ... and I'm guessing it won't be too long before data can be feed the other way direct to the Brain without going via the Mk 1 eyeball

On a lighter note ... "25,000 neurones" ... That rules me out as I'm down to about 5 after the Rugby this weekend

CoffmanStarter is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 14:31
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,616
'25000 neurones'
Isn't that actually a description of the Pentagon?
BEagle is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 14:53
  #66 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 62
Posts: 6,996
Spelled slightly different beginning with M

Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 18th Mar 2013 at 17:12.
CoffmanStarter is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 17:32
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 186
Mimpe, I'm curious - which simulation are you talking about?
Mk 1 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 19:03
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,509
Of course 'buying American' in the form of JSF was supposed to mitigate against issues such as happened to Typhoon. Something ironic about that!
Given how some of the habitual Yank bashers on this forum call for Americans to try to be more like Europeans, I find it doubly ironic: in this aspect, American succeeded in being more like the Euros, and still the bitching reaches hearing loss magnitude sound pressure levels.

Damned if you do,
damned of you don't,
so damn the torpedoes,
and devil take the hindmost.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 18th Mar 2013 at 19:05.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2013, 19:24
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
MK1, I think he is referring to apa clown club.
if you like I can give you links to the ADF response

well they won't talk about the EW and the eodas/eots does have good pictures to show

according to you guys, here is another air force that don't know what they are doing
Singapore Expected To Order F-35s Soon: Source

Singapore, a major business and shipping hub with the best-equipped military in Southeast Asia, is expected to submit a “letter of request” soon for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, said two U.S. government officials who were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

Last edited by JSFfan; 19th Mar 2013 at 01:34.
JSFfan is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 01:22
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 186

And the irony of hiding behind the tag 'LowObservable' is obviously lost on you...

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm another real Australian

JSF, I can't believe that pack on incompetent fools have joined the incompetent fools in the US defense force, the UK, Australia, Norway, Israel, Japan etc. All a bunch of idiots who clearly wouldn't have a clue about aerial warfare...

Last edited by Mk 1; 19th Mar 2013 at 01:25.
Mk 1 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 01:39
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Nationalistic pride also has to be considered in some responses, though that tends to go out the window when the schite hits the fan.

Japan Retains Confidence in F-35 Fighter, Defense Chief Says - Bloomberg
Japan Retains Confidence in F-35 Fighter, Defense Chief Says

"Japan is confident Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT)’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will overcome its development setbacks and expects to accept an initial order of four planes on schedule in 2016, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said.
“Problems tend to occur when a plane is in development,” Onodera said today in an interview at his office in Tokyo. “We have heard nothing from the U.S. to say there will be a delay. We think the end result will be a good product.”"

"Japan picked the F-35 to replace its aging F-4 aircraft, and could increase its order as its F-2 and F-15 models are retired. The Air Force has a total of 361 fighter planes, according to a white paper published in July last year.

Last edited by JSFfan; 19th Mar 2013 at 03:23.
JSFfan is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 01:44
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Rat Brain Pilot
Presumably a career in airline management beckons once it retires from the F-22.
Torque Tonight is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 08:02
  #73 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 62
Posts: 6,996
LW50 ... Moi European

Never !
CoffmanStarter is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 11:47
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 71
Posts: 1,938
F-35 Head Rest

Original: http://www.edwards.af.mil/shared/med...-ZZ999-001.jpg (2.2Mb)

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 19th Mar 2013 at 11:49. Reason: photo size
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 12:15
  #75 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 62
Posts: 6,996
Now where have I seen something like that before ... I wonder ...

And NO it's not mine
CoffmanStarter is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 13:05
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Age: 63
Posts: 345
And NO it's not mine
Are you sure about that Coff
Dysonsphere is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 16:59
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Oz
Age: 58
Posts: 71
What a great helmet, it looks like you have to take your hand off the throttle whilst tanking to raise your (RAF) gloved hand to protect your eyes from the sun. Perhaps all EO and no canopy is the way ahead....
yoyonow is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 17:05
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Surely that wouldn't work, yoyonow. Put your hand up to sheild your eyes but the damned electro-optics project a full size sun into the visor which fries your retina anyway.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 17:18
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Oz
Age: 58
Posts: 71
Ah but they are way ahead of you there Courtney. You can overlay a black spot on the position of the sun or, until that mod is completed, you can strap in facing backwards.

And don't call me Shirley!
yoyonow is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2013, 18:10
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far West Wessex
Posts: 2,549
Fascinating photo, Spaz. I'd like that headrest on my next long-haul flight as it looks very comfortable.

Complete guess - but it looks as if, at any conceivable head angle and location that involves the hereinbeforementioned head remaining attached to the rest of the pilot, the headrest occludes some of the glass. Which makes the point of having glass back there a little hard to understand.

Also, that headrest - which inter alia contains two airbag thingies that catch and decelerate your head as the airblast pushes it back, because the helmet means that your head is snapping forward and down on ejection - looks a bit bigger than the catcher's-mitt device on the rival Goodrich ACES 5.

LowObservable is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.